1853 Enfield Inconsistancy.

[tackdriver]

Once again I am here to ask for help with a kind of problem that only seems to happen to me...

For years I've shot my Italian repro Enfield and the best I could do was to shoot a 2 foot grouping at 100 yards, providing I even hit the target. This is from trying different powders, different grain and amounts from a bench rest. I just assumed this was the best this rifle could do.

Last weekend, I shot free hand at 100 yards, the rifle shot 6 inch groupings all day. Same brand powder, cast bullet etc that I normally use. NEVER before has it shot so well.

It will be a month before I can try it again to see if it was just some sort of cruel fluke, so my question is "Has anyone ever heard of this type of inconsistency in accuracy"? ..... Does it normally take 10 years and 1,000's of shots before these rifles will "season"? (I know it doesn't but I'm clutching at straws here...)

I was using a newly opened can of Goex 3F. But it never shot this well with Swiss. Any ideas of what I should take a look at to see what was different?

Thanks

[Muley Gil]

What type and size Minie are you shooting? What powder charge?

My first muzzleloader was a Zoli Zouave (Italian made) from the late '60s, bought new. From the bench, it would shoot a three shot 1" group, all day long, at 50 yards. I was using a Lyman 575213 Minie and 45 grains of FFFg DuPont (or Goex, later on). I was lucky in that I didn't have to size my Minies. They were a slipfit in the barrel.

Sure wish I could still shoot like that.

[Fred Jr]

Hi,

I used a 53 Enfield for many years. I used the shallow based Enfield bullet and 45gr of FFF. Shot great! You might want to check your lead. You must have pure soft lead to get any of these rifles to shoot well. I do believe the three banders like a long heavy bullet. I now shoot a two bander and use the Hogdon bullet sized. But still use pure lead. It shoots much better than I do in my present stage of life!

Good luck,
Fred 109712 TH PA

[tackdriver]

Thanks for the quick response. I use 50g of 3F goex, lyman mould for standard mini ball and commericial lube. This load at least got me on paper a couple years ago. Same batch of pure lead I've been using etc. I sort thru the minis and pull any with voids in the hollow. I size the balls to .576 &.577. Both shoot the same

The ONLY thing I can come up with is that this can of Goex is somehow different than what its been at the past (Like I say, Im clutching at straws here) I will try a different can next time I go out.

I am sure this is just one of those head scratching things and there may not be any good, rational answer. Chances are, I'll go out, use the same stuff and I'll go back to my 2 ft grouping. Ive found on these sites there is usually someone who either knows the answer or can put me on the right track to try and figure these things out.

thx!!

[Maillemaker]

I had a Euroarms Enfield with a .584 barrel that I never could get to shoot worth a darn. But it never "became mysteriously good", either.

I ended up replacing the barrel with a Whitacre barrel. Now off a bench at 50 yards it will make a single hole in the paper 2"-3" wide. I use a RCBS-Hodgdon bullet with 46 grains of powder.

Steve

[Eggman]

My vote goes to Fred. Usually real wide variations means hard lead and tumbling bullets. Make sure there are NO keyholes.
Other then that, your powder charge seems a little strong for an Enfield to me. Mine likes 35 grains fffg/ .575 old style minie. Lube is another factor. You cannot get to much in this child's mind. Add a dollip to the minie base.

[jonk]

I don't have a 3 band, but do have a 2 band, and can echo a lot of what you say; one day the gun shot gangbusters, the next day like crud. I had Bobby Hoyt deepen the rifling and straighten the barrel, and full length glass bedded it. That really helped. It since has been retired for a custom made Fayetteville I picked up last year, but it eliminated the variation.

If you're sure that your minies are properly sized and of dead soft lead, same powder, same caps, etc., I would look at your barrel to wood contact. In doing research on mine, I found that Enfields have a long history of being finicky in this regard; could be that the day it shot so well was a dry day, with no wood swelling. Hence why I full length bedded it (I tried just the breech/bolster area first). Second, make sure your barrel bands aren't pinching things; I ended up making a shim go go under them and thinning the stock slightly to raise the bands a few thousandths of an inch so they weren't pulling down on the barrel; and only tightening the screws enough to keep the bands from slipping. That also helped quite a bit.

Finally, you have to consider, it could have just been a fluke.

[ms3635v]

One other thought...how is the crown on the muzzle? A poor crown may cause inconsistent groups as well.

[tackdriver]

I forgot to mention it is a Hoyt barrel. I was out in the desert at 104', so yup, it was pretty dry. But that's where I usually shoot and get the aforementioned results. I did glass the barrel, but it was the first time I did it and pretty sure I screwed it up. Made no difference. No crowning or bullet key hole. Does shoot better after two fouling shots and I need to let the barrel cool after about a dozen shots.

That is interesting about the banding though. Never gave them much thought and I am sure I never tighten them the same after each cleaning

Frustrating, especially now that I know what the rifle is capable of doing.

Would you guys recommend I send the rifle in (somewhere) to have it "tuned up"? I'd be appreciative of suggestions on where to send it too.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Have you considered that it may not be so much the physics as the biomechanics? Consider this. We shoot offhand position for virtually every small arm, and it really doesn't much matter whether we are holding a full length rifle-musket, 2-band rifle, carbine, or revolver, while we all can generally attain great results from a bench rest position, it takes much more effort to be consistent when it comes to shooting offhand. If you want to improve your offhand, place a adhesive dot on your bedroom wall about ten to twelve feet away, and every morning when you get out of bed and again every before you go to sleep, pick up your musket, rifle, carbine or revolver, and just make ten dry-fire exercises making sure you use the same technique for each shot as you normally use in shooting. By simply practicing your offhand position in this manner, you will begin to see improvements in your offhand shooting usually within a month, and by continuing this dry-fire exercise, you will notice your groups will get tighter and tighter until you can keep all ten live fire shots within the 10-ring at most any distance up to 100 yards. This is the same exercise as was taught to the members of the All Army Reserve Rifle Team back in the 1970s and 80s, which is where I learned it. Trouble is, if you don't practice your offhand position, you generally won't improve your shooting.