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Thread: New to these guns, don't know where to start

  1. #11
    mikea is offline
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    Russ-
    I agree with all that's been posted so far, but here is an attempt to give you the whole 9 yards We all have different ways of doing things, different equipment, etc., but there are two very basic things:
    1) The minies should be cast from PURE LEAD.
    2) They should be sized from .001 to .003 inches less than the land to land bore diameter of the gun you are shooting.
    I went down the road you are starting on some years ago and had nothing but frustration until I had the good fortune to run into a veteran N-SSA member who found my problem and helped me out.
    I had bought a nice used Parker-Hale 3 band Enfield and had purchased bullets and a ".575" inexpensive sizer from a well known company (not Track of the Wolf). The ".575" sizer was the only size they carried and what they recommended in their catalog. The results at 50 yds. were that about a third of the bullets made a large group high in the target, another third keyholed all over the target and the other third went to parts unknown.
    The N-SSA member who helped me out first tested the fit of the bullets in the muzzle and said that the sizing felt OK. (Turned out that The bore diameter was .577 and the ".575" sizer was actually .574, so I was sizing at the end of the the .001 to .003 range. He then tested the bullets by trying to scratch them with his thumb nail and trying to dent the skirt of a bullet by squeezing between thumb and forefinger. Turned out the bullets were hard as rocks - definitely not cast from pure lead which would have scratched and dented easily.
    I later got some bullets actually cast from pure lead from the people I will mention next and VIOLA! - problem solved.
    What causes these guns to shoot poorly is that the bullets are either too small for the bore and/or they are too hard, and the skirts don't enlarge enough to properly engage the rifling
    Some sutlers who will have most of what you need:
    S&S Firearms - has link on N-SSA website - go to homepage & click
    "links of interest". Get their catalog - can email, call or download. Has lots of stuff we use.
    North East Trade Co., John DeWald. 1980 John Brady Dr., Muncy, PA 17756-8057, Ph (570) 546-2062. Web site with some of his stuff is:
    www.northeasttradeco.com. I use his very handy lube applicator & lube, cleaning rods and his sizing dies.
    Southwest Sutler - has link on N-SSA website. Has some of NE Trade stuff .
    For bullets - I have had good luck with:
    Pat Kaboskey in Wisconsin - (262) 363-4625 (after 6 pm CST) and Paul Weber in W. VA - (304) 258-4666.
    The following is all "what I would have done if I knew then what I know now" :
    FIRST: Find out the bore diameter. Best way is to get a gunsmith who has an offset micrometer to slug the bore. Odd #'s of lands/grooves require offset micrometer to measure accurately. If you can have this done at a reasonable cost go this route. Alternates are use of plug guages if you can find someone with then in right size range or use bullets that are sized to right range of diameters as plug guages. What you are looking for is the largest diameter bullet that will slide up & down an inverted barrel from light finger pressure & gravity.
    NEXT: Before you buy a mould, get several different types of .58 cal bullets to test - maybe 25 of each. For a 1:48 twist try New Style - should do better with longer bullets. Kaboskey & Weber have a number of different moulds. They may be able to size them for you also. After finding out what bullet(s) your gun likes you can get the mould(s) & cast yourself.
    SIZNG DIES: You can get musket bullet sizes from S&S for a Lubrisizer if you want to go that route. I have a Lyman Lubrisizer but don't like it for musket bullets. I prefer the North East Trade sizers that are threaded for use in a reloading press using standard 7/8" thread dies, but can be used without one. They cost more than the "elcheapo's" where you use a wood dowel to push the bullet through, but they are the actual size they are supposed to be & come with a steel flat based pusher. A steel coned pusher for minie's is an option. Beats replacing the wood dowels which break regularly. If I didn't own a reloading press anyway, I would buy a cheap used one to use with these dies. Most painless & quick way to size there is.
    RELOADING SCALE: I got an electronic scale, as opposed to the balance beam type, from the beginning. Wouldn't live without it. Understand the guts of most or all these things come from the same source - the cheapest will do fine, +/- .1 gr accuracy all you need. Use for weighing bullets as well as powder charges.
    BULLET LUBE & LUBING: Lots of commercial products & homebrew receipes. I started with & like the North East Trade Inside/Outside Luber. Now costs $11.50 & comes with a charge of their MCM lube, which I like, but you can melt out that lube & use the thing with any other lube.
    LEAD POTS: I have an RCBS 20 lb. with bottom pour capability. The only thing the bottom pour feature is good for is emptying the pot out. It's worthless for casting minie's & have had to plug it up from the outside due to leaking. If I had to do it over, I wouldn't get a bottom pour pot but I would get a 20 lb - a 10 lb isn't enough for very many bullets.
    POWDER - 2F vs. 3F. Most of us use 41 - 48 gr (by weight) of 3F for the 50 & 100 yd. musket shooting we do. Some find their gun/bullet does better with 2F. You would probably want to use the 60 gr. service charge for 200 yds and beyond.
    PRELOADED AMMO: N-SSA requires we use preloaded ammo - no loose powder & bullets, and authentic paper cartridges are forbidden for safety reasons. All loading is done on the firing line. One method of making ammo is:
    Get .58 plastic tubes from S&S, North East or others. Put in a bag with a dash of talcum powder & shake to coat to stop static cling of powder in tubes. Add powder charge in tubes. Insert sized bullets nose down far enough so it is firmly held, with rear part of bullet sticking out of tube. Dip exposed part of bullet in melted lube (I use Inside/Outside Luber for this). Some also put extra lube and/or Crisco in base.
    SAFETY RULES IN LOADING: To begin - fire a cap down range to insure gun not loaded & to clear out flash channel, then fire a cap at ground to see gas move dirt, grass, etc. to make sure flash channel is clear. Leave fired cap on nipple. Put butt of gun on ground with barrel up but not pointed at you. Pull bullet from tube & pour powder down barrel from side. Insert bullet between fingers base down into muzzle. Ram bullet firmly down with ramrod between fingers - NOT IN FIST! If you have to fist the ramrod in loading minie's, something is wrong! Leave fired cap on gun & reload as before. In the entire loading / reloading process, only fingers are over the muzzle, never your hand. Cookoffs - ie., where powder charge goes off while pouring powder in barrel or ramming bullet are very rare but do happen - hence these safety rules, which if followed will prevent more than singed fingers.
    Hope all this helps.
    Mike A

  2. #12
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    Mike A,

    That is the best fundamental write up I've seen in quite a long time.

    You have answered the basic questions in such a clear and concise fashion, if you don't mind, I'm going to save it so that the next time I help a beginner get started I'm just going to print out what you have written and have them read it first. Well done!

    John Holland
    44th New York

  3. #13
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    Good to see you're interested in shooting the Enfield at ranges of beyond 100 yards - something I seldom see mention of from shooters in the USA. Here in the UK the Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain (MLAGB - www.mlagb.com) holds National Rifle Championship matches for Enfields at 200, 300, 500 and 600 yards. A club I am in also has an aggregate match for Enfield of 15 shots at each distance, 600 & 800 yards! Great fun and a real suprise at what the arm can accomplish.

    David
    David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk - www.facebook.com/ResearchPress
    Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

  4. David,

    We don't mind shooting those distances, just our available ranges tend to limit us. 100 is pretty much the longest at most ranges. There are a few with 200 at enough that you can find one. Beyond 200 is difficult to find.
    Edwin Flint
    14th Mississippi Infantry, N-SSA
    Deputy Commander, DS Region

  5. #15
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    We don't mind shooting those distances, just our available ranges tend to limit us. 100 is pretty much the longest at most ranges. There are a few with 200 at enough that you can find one. Beyond 200 is difficult to find.
    Ed, that sounds more like an excuse, considering the whole of the British Isles (including Ireland) is only like 2.5% of the geographical area of the United States.

    http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_sta ... y_area.htm
    First Cousin (7 times removed) to Brigadier General Stand Watie (1806-1871), CSA
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  6. #16
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    Now, Richard, lighten up. Ed may well not be familiar with shooting those new fangled breech loading thingies. Got to admit though, that the Oak Ridge club may not be that far for him.
    Greg Ogdan, 11444
    110th OVI

  7. #17
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    Come on up to Tennessee Ed.
    If ya got somthing that will shoot out to 1000 yds (artillery excluded) I would be happy get you on the range.
    Oak Ridge is one of the best ranges in the Southeast.
    Dave K.

    USMC, '69-'82
    Semper Fi

    Darn! I thought getting old would have taken longer!

    44th GA., #12146
    Deep South

  8. Dave,

    Would love to give it a try but it would have to be a weekender. You are 7 + hours away so it's hard to drive up for an afternoon. I may take you up on that one day though when I can arrange time.

    Greg, depending on where you are in Ohio, you might be closer to him than I am.

    Richard, the nearest range that I know that 1000 yards is on the Gulf Coast, 5-6 hours away, and it's private. There are no public 1000 yard ranges anywhere I know of in the State. Best folks can here do are "simulated" reduced targets. I might one day find an accomodating farmer, but until then, I shoot what I can.
    Edwin Flint
    14th Mississippi Infantry, N-SSA
    Deputy Commander, DS Region

  9. #19
    RaiderANV's Avatar
    RaiderANV is offline
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    Sir Edward,,,,,if'n yer in me woods any time I gots me ah 1600 yarder not get'n much use on my farm. Sucks to go check the targets :shock:

    Been gonna get me a lil camera and a long roll of wire,,,,one day me guesses :roll:
    Never squat with yer spurs on!!!

    Pat "PJ" Kelly #5795V
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  10. #20
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    Richard, the nearest range that I know that 1000 yards is on the Gulf Coast, 5-6 hours away, and it's private. There are no public 1000 yard ranges anywhere I know of in the State. Best folks can here do are "simulated" reduced targets. I might one day find an accomodating farmer, but until then, I shoot what I can.
    How close are you to Gilbert, LA? That's where the Eutaw Rifle & Gun Club has a 1,000 yd "public" rifle range. It's about 60 miles SW of Vicksburg. Of course, I realize Emory's place may not offer that much distance, and probably less than the last time I shot over at his backyard the first time he hosted the Aberdeen Skirmish (almost 20 years ago). But 600-800 yds is a excellent distance for the P/53-61 Enfield.

    http://rangelistings.com/state.php?state=MS

    http://rangelistings.com/state.php?state=LA
    First Cousin (7 times removed) to Brigadier General Stand Watie (1806-1871), CSA
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