1842 rifles in civilian hands?

[David Yossi Snellen]

Gentlemen,
I was looking at a picture of the California Guards (from California Missouri). There are 2 men in civilian clothes. It was a militia unit that was formed to fight the yankee invasion. One man is holding a dble barrel shotgun. The other, a Mississippi rifle. Would a civilian, that had never been in the military/militia have had one? I would think not, so that may mean he was in the service at some time. What do y'all think?
I look forward to your responses,
David

[John Holland]

David -

Can you provide the photograph you have referenced? Also there is documentation that Model 1841 Rifles were issued to wagon trains going west during the great western expansion. The photo may be from that time period.

JDH
SAC

[David Yossi Snellen]

The picture is in the Sweeny museum. It is from about 1860.
Aside from the trains, would a civilian have had a 42?
David

[R. McAuley 3014V]

CENSORED

[Bob Eschbach, 3380v]

David, In the book titled Guns of Harpers Ferry, written by S.E. Brown on page 94, Brown cites a Sawyer(Charles W. ?) with this quote, " a suprising number of duels were fought by civilians with Model 1841 rifles in the period from1850 to 1865"... He also cites Lord (?)..."big game hunters swore by it". I also recall reading, I cant remember where, that the US Goverment issued homesteaders who were availing themselves of one of the Govt"s homesteading schemes, a Mississippi Rifle along with other incentives, to populate the West. My personal feeling is that civilian Americans were very familiar with the 1841. Bob E

[Johan Steele]

I have seen an original Charleston SC newpaper ad from 1858 w/ an ad from a drygoods/gunshop selling " Windsor Rifles and "Famous" Mississippi Rifles for $26. So there were some available to the civilian market, how many is another question and $26 in 1858 was a tidy sum.

[Southron Sr.]

U.S. M 1835, M 1842's and Mississippi Rifles were very common in civilian hands during the late 1840's & throughout the 1850's.

Many of the soldiers that served in the Mexican War brought thir arms home with them at the end of the war after they were mustered out. In addition, the Mississippi Rifle was manufactured by a multitude of private manufacturers under govenment contract (thanks to the Milita Act of 1808).

Consequently, these Mississippi's were issued to the various states for their militias. These militia units then issued these Mississippi Rifles to the members of their militias who kept thei rifles in their homes and brought them to monthly militia drills.

Then there was the commercial market for Mississippi Rifles. Government contractors would often sell their contract overruns on the commercial market. The Whitney company probably sold more military type arms to individuals and militia units than they did to the U.S. Government all throughout the 1850's.

Then as now, any rifle "officially adopted" by the U.S. immediately became popular with civilian shooters. For example-Today the U.S. Military issues M-16's and M-4's to our troops. There are literally dozens of commercial manufacturers that manufacture and sell semi-automatic versions of both the M-16 and M-4 civilians.

[Don Dixon]

Several additional reasons:

Up to World War II, discharged soldiers were generally permitted to purchase, at the government's cost, the arms that they had carried while on active duty. Non-standard arms, like the Austrian rifles or Enfields probably would have been disposed of for less, since they would have had no place in the Army's inventory after the war.

Under a Congressional act of 23 April 1808, the Federal government transferred a quota of arms to each of the states each year to arm the militia. Once the arms were transferred to the states, they became state property and could have been disposed of as the state government saw fit. The states also purchased additional arms from the Federal government at cost, or less for older arms. Between 1 January 1860 and 1 January 1861, in a abject act of treason, Secretary of War Floyd authorized the sale of 31,610 alterred .69 caliber muskets to the southern states for $2.50 each. Since most of the state armories had very small quantities serviceable arms on hand at the beginning of the Civil War, much of what they had received from the Federal government had been excessed in some fashiion.

Southron is correct about contract overruns, both then and in more modern times.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[RaiderANV]

And then there was the occassional battle that left tons of this stuff layin' about. :shock: If I'd lived anywhere near a battlefield I'd-ah had a barn full by sunrise :!: :twisted:

[David Yossi Snellen]

Gentlemen. GREAT information. Now if I could only scrape enough together to buy one.....
David