Powder charge with a .58 minie

[frogg4269]

I have done some research on this and on another board it was suggested that I would find no better place to answer this question. I am shooting a .575 500gr minie ball. I have ready that the suggested amount of powder is 60-70 grains. I have shot mine between 60 and 80 grains and I seem to like 80 grains. My brother-in-law shoots 90-100 grains on minies in his .50. The person who pointed me here said that people compete with these shooting 45 grains at 100 yards. Hodgdon has their charts showing muzzle velocities with 80 grain charges. I am using T7 powder not real black powder. Please keep in mind I will be hunting with my rifle. I am practicing at 100 yards mostly.

The real meat of the question is why is 60 to 70 grains recommended? Are there issues that I will have shooting above that? Basically why is whatever the best powder charge the best?

[Maillemaker]

Hello Frogg:

N-SSA shooters are shooting at paper or other fragile targets, so knock-down power is not an issue. Rather, accuracy is the primary goal. To do this, shooters will "work up a load" (just like people who load modern cartridges) to find the best charge and bullet combination that gives the best accuracy. With the precision-fitted bullets most of us use, this is usually less powder than a full service load.

I believe the service charge for .58 expanding ball cartridges during the Civil War was 60 grains. I am speculating that this may have been to increase the knock-down power and effective range of the weapon, or possibly to insure full bullet expansion in guns where the issued bullets may not have had such a precision fit as competition shooters usually use.

As I understand it, the risk of too large a charge is that you can "blow the skirt" of the bullet, which will ruin accuracy. Worst case, you can literally blow the skirt off the bullet in the barrel, leaving a ring of lead in the barrel that can cause cook-off problems by providing place for coke to built up that can no longer be cleaned away by through normal cleaning patches/brushes.

Steve

[marv762]

OUCH!!! i have used triple seven in my 50 cal. round ball gun. it shoots with 55 grns ffg. i have a 40 round match with some practice shots before the match starts. the gun shoots a 1.5" group at 50 yards. i would like to ask you how your shoulder feels after say ten shots? i have heard guys shooting the inline guns with 150 grns worth of pellets. i understand you want the dear to drop when you hit it. you would get the same results with less powder than you are using now, and have a better time shooting the gun. 80 grns of 777 equals about 110 grns of goex. you might want to see what your gun was proofed at from the factory. you could crack the stock where the tang screws into the stock. we have offered to start an inline class at our shoot, but no takers yet. i think that it would be impossible to shoot our match with that type of gun and still be able to drive home. i have taken my musket dear hunting in the past with a load of 50 grns of 2 f goex and a 510 grn bullet. Marv

[Maillemaker]

80 grns of 777 equals about 110 grns of goex.

Wow.

Steve

[jonk]

A few things here...

First, textbook loads for the .58 call for FFG powder or equivalents. Most N-SSA shooters are using FFFG as it groups well with lighter charges in the 35-50 gr range. I'd agree, for a 2FG load, I'd go with about 60 gr and work up from there; but shooting that all day is going to be unpleasant.

Second, you want to figure out just what kind of energy you have for hunting. Play with http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp. For instance, a standard 30-06 load moving a 150 gr bullet at 2800 fps has a KO rating of about 18 (for reference). A minie moving at about 850 fps weighing 500 gr that is 58 caliber has a rating of- get ready- 34. So even with a modest charge (the N-SSA often shoots bullets moving at 750-900 fps), you're still getting roughly twice the knock down power as with a 30-06. Point is, you don't have to get that bullet moving fast at ALL to absolutely prove DEVASTATING to a deer.

As to inlines and such with 150 gr equivalents, I've shot deer with 100 gr of 2FG... and the bullet (200 gr soft point) just blew right through the deer and out the other side, leaving a hole the size of my fist. 150 gr isn't needed.

So the point is... start low, work up in 5 shot strings until the group tightens up. Whatever speed that might be, it will blow Bambi off his feet like a freight train.

[frogg4269]

Thanks for the advice. I did bruise my shoulder but that was because I was holding my rifle badly. I had a misfire the first shot (60 grains) and after a few caps I took out the nipple and put in a grain or two. When I shot it again I had the rifle held badly and I bruised up my shoulder pretty good. I have noticed that it feels like a different gun over shooting patched round balls.

My rifle doesn't have any markings or serial numbers anywhere so I'm not certain yet what it is. For that matter I just started trying ot figure it out. It looks exactly like an old CVA mountain rifle....but again, no markings. I Sent some pictures off to CVA and someone said they would see if they could figure out if I am right.

As for powder I suppose I will go back down to 60 with my next shot and see what kind of accuracy I can get. My sights are off and they need replaced so I sort of have to shoot around them for the moment. I haven't shot anything without a scope since I was in the army so it has taken some getting used to.

So to sum up what I have been told is that I am looking for accuracy whatever the powder load since I will be able to end a deer regardless. Just start at 60 grains and work my way up until I figure out what works for me. What kind of difference in trajectory will there be at 100 yards or so with the different powder loads? Do I need to aim higher with 60 grains than I do with 80? Before this I have just shot factory loads out of anything that I own so I basically pick a bullet and stick with it. Too much powder and I can lose accuracy because I blow up my bullet right?

One last question for anyone here. I have heard that a 50/50 crisco beeswax mix is a good bullet lube. Is that true and if not, what do you guys use?

[pastore]

One last question for anyone here. I have heard that a 50/50 crisco beeswax mix is a good bullet lube. Is that true and if not, what do you guys use?

I think that you will find that a 50/50 crisco/beeswax lube will be pretty stiff. I find that a 75/25 crisco/beeswax mix works quite well.

[jonk]

Thanks for the advice. I did bruise my shoulder but that was because I was holding my rifle badly. I had a misfire the first shot (60 grains) and after a few caps I took out the nipple and put in a grain or two.

Common practice in the N-SSA is to wipe your bore before shooting, then fire 2-3 caps before putting in a powder charge just to avoid this issue. Oil gets into the nipple and breech area causing misfires.

So to sum up what I have been told is that I am looking for accuracy whatever the powder load since I will be able to end a deer regardless. Just start at 60 grains and work my way up until I figure out what works for me. What kind of difference in trajectory will there be at 100 yards or so with the different powder loads? Do I need to aim higher with 60 grains than I do with 80? Before this I have just shot factory loads out of anything that I own so I basically pick a bullet and stick with it. Too much powder and I can lose accuracy because I blow up my bullet right?

That's what I would do, yes. I wouldn't worry about velocity, but rather would let the hefty 500 gr. minie do its job and worry most about accuracy. There will certainly be a trajectory change depending on the powder charge, and I would advise that once you figure out a good load for 50 yards, move to 100 and see how much drop you get. You don't want to dump a round under the deer or hit the paunch; a common scenario would be a load zeroed for 50 yards would be pretty close to being on at 25 yards, but drop 8-10" at 100; so if you don't move your sights at 100 yards, a slight hold over or holding right at the top of the spine should put the round into the shoulder/lungs/heart area.

One last question for anyone here. I have heard that a 50/50 crisco beeswax mix is a good bullet lube. Is that true and if not, what do you guys use?

Favorite lube recipes is a real can of worms that is hotly debated; everyone has their favorite. Remember, we're firing 50-75 rounds per day for a match; our lube has to do more than the average lube does. That said, I use crisco and beeswax myself, plus a little olive oil. About 45/45/10 for proportions based on volume. Just plain 50/50 should work, but I agree it would likely be a tad stiff especially in cold weather. But, if you're only firing a few shots, that's not a problem. A lot of guys also fill the bases on their minie balls with pure crisco or a synthetic grease like white lithium to further soften fouling; for hunting though, I think I'd skip that as grease sitting on the powder for a full day of hunting could after awhile contaminate the powder. However, many also find the gun shoots more accurately with the base filled; the idea being that the lube in the grooves on the bullet- which should be sized to about 1/1000" under bore size- helps seal the bullet to the bore when the skirt expands on firing, and does do some work toward keeping the fouling soft, but the big resevoir of lube in the base is what really keeps things soft over a day of shooting. Again, for a few shots, or slow fire when you can brush or swab after every few shots, that isn't as big an issue.