Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Old time Bedding

  1. #1
    Hickok's Avatar
    Hickok is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Occupied Western Virginia,...Thomas WV
    Posts
    105
    Region:
    Visitor

    Old time Bedding

    I hope you all don't get tired of me posting, it is seldom I run into a group of fellows in my area that has a passion for the 1860 era weapons as we all do.

    I have glass bedded many rifles with AcraGlass and also JB Weld. But have any of you ever tryed the way the old timers used to do it with heavy paper or shellaced rags under the tang/ breech area?

    In addition to my Armisport Enfield, I have an 1970's British made P-H 2 band Enfield that I was wanting to try it on, and really don't want to put Acraglas in this rifle. (Though I may have too, due to a generous gap under the breech, seems a normal issue with P-H rifles.) The lands on this rifle are dead on .577".

    Years previous, I had the Italian assembled P-H 2 band Enfield, and I had to bed it with Acraglass to get it to shoot, as it would string shots in about a 4 inch long line from about 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock @ 50 yds. After glassing it shot great. Like a knucklehead, I later sold it. One of many rifles I wish I had back!
    Last edited by Hickok; 07-26-2013 at 09:25 AM.
    Relatives; Isaac W. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. Lost right arm at Antietam
    Obed T. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. wounded at Battle of Monocacy Md.
    David H. Shafer 6th. WV Cav. captured Battle of New Creek WV
    died POW Richmond Va.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    120
    Region:
    Visitor
    Here's the way the Brits do it so that they can compete in international matches (maybe even UK NRA sanctioned matches) where the rifle has to conform to the way things were done in the 1860's including bedding. Acraglass is verboten.


    http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms/british/enfield/management09.htm



    Pat
    Last edited by Pat in Virginia; 07-26-2013 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Didn't print the way typed.

  3. #3
    Hickok's Avatar
    Hickok is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Occupied Western Virginia,...Thomas WV
    Posts
    105
    Region:
    Visitor
    Thanks Pat. I am experimenting, with this info you gave me!

    I cut some brown paper into 5 inch long strips 1 1/4 inch wide to lay down in the breech area. The paper is .007" thick measured with a digital caliper. It took 4 layers of the paper to touch the bottom of the stock channel and contact the barrel, and just raise the top of the barrel tang slightly above the stock to allow for compression of the paper when the rear tang screw is tightened bringing the tang even with the stock. Also the put 4 pieces of brown paper in tang channel so tang sets solid without flex.

    Four pieces of brown paper at .007" equals .028", minus the compression of the paper is a gap under the barrel of about .021" give or take. I next am going to shim up under the barrel bands in the stock, and get her out to the range and fire some P-H Minies and see what the target says.

    If nothing else, this method would be a good way to verify any gap or bedding problems with musket stocks, as it is fast and simple.

    I really don't have any history for this P-H 2 band Enfield, I think it it a first generation, serial # 7XXX. made in Birmingham England. English proof marks, excellent condition, bore like a mirror, stock perfect, only slight handling marks. Butt plate has no marks from "heeling" or loading, bluing is perfect, no rust. Wood is not blackened or scorched around nipple area, so I don't think it was a re-enactor rifle or a skirmish rifle.

    I found it on the internet for a price less than a new Pedersoli Enfield. It has been setting since I got it, and I will have to get out and see what it will do. If the paper bedding works, I am going to seal up the paper or waterproof it and leave it in, if not I will glass it.

    Then comes zeroing and sight work! I am not letting this Parker Hale get away like I did my last one.
    Relatives; Isaac W. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. Lost right arm at Antietam
    Obed T. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. wounded at Battle of Monocacy Md.
    David H. Shafer 6th. WV Cav. captured Battle of New Creek WV
    died POW Richmond Va.

  4. #4
    Hickok's Avatar
    Hickok is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Occupied Western Virginia,...Thomas WV
    Posts
    105
    Region:
    Visitor
    I got to take the P-H 2 band out to see if the paper bedding experiment worked. It seems to shoot well. i have to amend my earlier post as to how many brown paper shims I used. I used 5 brown paper shims (each .007") under the breech area for a length of 5 inches, 5 shims under the tang (cut to fit tang area profile and hole added for tang screw), 4 shims under the 2nd barrel ( .75" wide)and 2 shims under the first barrel band next to the muzzle (.75" wide). I placed the shims in the barrel channel so they stopped 3/8" from the top of the stock on each side.

    Setting the barrel in the channel with the shims under the breech and the tang, I pressed down on the barrel at the location of each barrel and added shims until no movement of the barrel in the stock. Coated the bottom of the barrel Mobil 1 high pressure grease and tighened everything down.

    I have .004" in gap between bottom of nipple bolster and top of lock plate, whereas before the two had direct contact, I had to loosen tang screw to take off lock assembly.

    I shot 50 grains 3f, P-H 560 minie @ 50 yards benched. Charges were thrown, not weighed, and bullets were not weighed, that will all come later. took 10 bullets, fired one away to fowl barrel, shot a 5 shot group, and a 4 shot group, and out of bullets. Slugs were sized .576" but need to size to .575" as they started to get hard to ram down the barrel after a few shots.

    Course sight, 6 o'clock hold. Shooting 4.5 inches to the left, so will need about .055" sight correction. (Excuse the black tape on some bullet holes, as these were from another shooting session)

    I believe I can tighten up the groups will load developement and weighed charges and bullets. This "brown paper bedding" was really easy, now to see how it holds up.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Hickok; 07-30-2013 at 07:27 PM.
    Relatives; Isaac W. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. Lost right arm at Antietam
    Obed T. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. wounded at Battle of Monocacy Md.
    David H. Shafer 6th. WV Cav. captured Battle of New Creek WV
    died POW Richmond Va.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    120
    Region:
    Visitor
    Hickock,

    That looks very promising indeed. Do you have any "before" groups to compare it against?

    I very much appreciate the way you thoroughly described what you did.


    Pat

  6. #6
    Hickok's Avatar
    Hickok is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Occupied Western Virginia,...Thomas WV
    Posts
    105
    Region:
    Visitor
    Pat, the rifle set for awhile until I got the time to try a bedding job, and I never thought about taking pics of before groups, it would have been a good idea for better information.

    The reason I only took 10 minies out to the range was I figured I could tell real quick if the "brown paper bedding" experiment would work. Giving credit to the Lord, it did.

    I believe I can tighten up the groups with more precise charges, sizing my bullets to .575", and checking weights.

    Also I was using the stock "as issue" sights which I find hard to see. I just got done cutting a groove in the front sight block and added a "Partridge type" flat steel blade, slightly off-center to correct my left windage problem.

    The rear sight had some horizontal play or movement in the ladder, so I made a small metal "O" washer or shim and put beside the hole in the ladder where the pin goes through, replaced the pin, and the rear sight latter is now tight, with no windage movement. That should help grouping some what. Next, shoot again, file the front sight and cold blue.

    Sorry for the double post pictures. I do like to put up the pictures with my posts, so no one thinks I am just "all talk" or some kind of troll.
    Name:  2 band 015.jpg
Views: 252
Size:  53.4 KBName:  2 band 012.jpg
Views: 253
Size:  66.8 KBName:  2 band 015.jpg
Views: 252
Size:  53.4 KBName:  2 band 012.jpg
Views: 253
Size:  66.8 KB
    Last edited by Hickok; 08-01-2013 at 10:53 AM.
    Relatives; Isaac W. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. Lost right arm at Antietam
    Obed T. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. wounded at Battle of Monocacy Md.
    David H. Shafer 6th. WV Cav. captured Battle of New Creek WV
    died POW Richmond Va.

  7. #7
    Hickok's Avatar
    Hickok is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Occupied Western Virginia,...Thomas WV
    Posts
    105
    Region:
    Visitor
    Picture of rear sight with shimwasher indicated by toothpick.Name:  027.jpg
Views: 230
Size:  95.1 KBName:  028.jpg
Views: 298
Size:  78.2 KB
    Relatives; Isaac W. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. Lost right arm at Antietam
    Obed T. Shafer 33rd Va. Inf. wounded at Battle of Monocacy Md.
    David H. Shafer 6th. WV Cav. captured Battle of New Creek WV
    died POW Richmond Va.

Similar Threads

  1. bedding a rifle musket
    By medic302 in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-09-2012, 07:37 AM
  2. Glass Bedding ? For Southron
    By raymo7521 in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-17-2011, 11:16 PM
  3. Glass bedding a 41 Mississippi?
    By mwmoore10261 in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-15-2009, 12:58 AM
  4. glass bedding
    By Bob Chabalowski in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-27-2009, 07:55 AM
  5. glass bedding
    By Bob Chabalowski in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-23-2009, 07:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •