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Thread: shooting the ballard 46 rimfire

  1. #1
    hp gregory is offline
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    shooting the ballard 46 rimfire

    i thought this would be worth bringing up. anyone shooting the ballard 46 rimifre military rifle with a stock chamber and bore. if so what case, bullet, load etc. i know a lot of the guns are being sleeved and chambered to 45 colt. i have one of these that shoots pretty nice. i thought it would be nice to see if there is away to keep from chopping up a nice original. it would seem to me that a heeled bullet would be all that we would need to get them to shoot. anyone got any ideas. mr holland what say you on the matter.

    hp

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    Mine likes the Lyman 454485 sized to .456, 25 grains 3F Goex, a little filler, and a lot of lube. The cases are 44-40 with the primer pocket filled and then drilled for an off-center .22 short case. It is an excellent shooter.

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    Eggman is offline Banned
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    A possible alternative is the .44 long brass case from Dixie Gun Works (KA0206). This is made for rimfire with a pocket drilled off center to hold a .22 blank.

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    efritz is offline
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    H.P.

    I've also been looking into this. I have 2 rifles (one sleeved, one still original bore) and a carbine still original bore. I'd like to be able to shoot both originals sometime.
    I contacted Moose moulds about a heeled bullet. I was asked to design it, they'd make it. But, I'm no bullet designer. I have an idea, but have no clue as to whether it would fly or not. Hate to have a mould made to find out it key holes or something. I'll talk to Charlie Hahn at the Nat'ls. and get his input. With the help of Al Reihle, the 44 mag and 44 special cases fit in the rifle and 41 mags will work in the carbine. The 41 mags have to be shortened.

    The big problem facing the rifle is putting an approx. .457 bullet in a .44 mag cartridge. You can't use dies to seat the bullet so the bullet has to made to fit snugly in the cartridge right out of the mould and the bullet design has to be one that will fly.

    In my carbine the hammer has been modified with the spike. The rifle has a spring loaded firing pin. I see others on the BB have suggested using a 44 mag case from Dixie with the .22 insert. Sounds good for those that don't want to alter the hammer.

    If anyone has bullet design experience and would like to post something, that would be nice.

    We can talk further at the Nat'ls.
    When in doubt, mumble, when in trouble, delegate.

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    I've been using a 44 special case with 25gr 3f,filler topped off with a RCBS 45-300 flat nose bullet. The bullet has a gass check which fits into the case.

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    hp gregory is offline
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    i also have two. one 45 colt and a stock gun in pretty nice shape. i would love to be able to come up with something where i could shoot the stock gun as is. i realy hate cuting up nice guns. but then again i realy like shooting so it can be a tough call sometimes between fun and history.
    the rifle i am shooting had a rough bore so it wasnt to hard a decision to have bobby sleeve it and chamber it for 45 long colt. i had an idea for a bullet very similiar to a rcbs 44 cal trunicated nose bullet. i found an nei mould that i could modify by cutting off the back to end up with a 235 grain bullet with a trunicated nose. i didnt want to overload the cast frame so i kept the load down to 22 grns of 3f goex and filler. my favorite lube is lens lube and it works great. i normaly like to use a hot primer for black powder so i use a magnum pistol primer.
    i find this round very much like an air rifle when shooting it. almost no recoil and they still shoot flat between 50 and 100 yds. this load seems to do pretty good. if we could come upo with a heeled bullet in the 225 to 250 range i think that might bring these old guns to life.

    hp

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    Jack C., 69th NY is offline
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    Great topic of conversation. I am definitely in the camp of those who do not want to modify a collectable, un-messed with Ballard rifle or carbine. Most Ballards have been "gunsmithed" over the past 150 years and 100% originals are not too common today. The Lyman or Ideal 454485 gas check bullet seems to be the best stock mold for those who want to keep the original .46 cal. chambering. It can be finger fit in both 44-40 or 44 mag. The shoulder of the 44-40 gives a better gas seal. The 454485 bullet weighs 250 grains. My thought is that a lighter bullet would cause less pressure and thus be better for the cast Ballard receivers. I am not sure what the weight difference would be for two identical bullets with one having been modified to a gas check design. Keep in mind that Ballard chamber sizes do vary. Just because some 3 band Ballard rifles accept a 44-40 round, not all do. Before you get too deep into this idea, make sure the individual rifle will accept the brass. That may also be true for the .44 magnum case but I am not so sure. Check the 44-40, not all Ballard rifles will chamber that round.

    I started toying with using cut down and fireformed 303 Savage brass for the 44 cal Ballards but I never finished my thoughts for that caliber.

    I was thinking of speaking with the various custom mold makers about a .454 to .456 gas check bullet along the Elmer Keith design, like the 429421 (.44 cal.) or 454190 (.46 cal.) but modified for a gas check.

    I would be willing to enter into a group design / buy of a custom mold in order to avoid re-chambering a collectable Ballard.

    Here is an interesting link for cartridge conversions. 44 Ballards are covered but no .46 cal Ballard.
    http://castpics.net/subsite/Conversions/default.html

    My thoughts for now.
    Last edited by Jack C., 69th NY; 03-19-2013 at 05:48 PM. Reason: added link
    Jack Conway
    69th NY

  8. #8
    hp gregory is offline
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    has anyone with a realy good original bore tried re-chambering their ballard to 45 long colt. this would seem the least destructive way of geting one to shoot. maybe.

    hp

  9. #9
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    With all due respect to hp, whose friendship I value dearly, "...least destructive..." is destructive nonetheless. The analogy is the same as "She's sort of pregnant...", either she is, or she isn't!

    In my Ballard .46 caliber rifle I use a .44-40 case with the Lyman 454485 heeled bullet. If I can scrape together some time later today I'll post the formula that works so well for me.

    John

  10. #10
    Jack C., 69th NY is offline
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    hp & John,
    I have chambered a .46 Ballard to .45 Long Colt using a good original bore and it works fine for me. You can use an assortment of available .454 bullets. That being said, I have only done this with Ballards that have had their collectability destroyed by 150 years of gunsmithing, some good, some bad. Restoring a "sporterized", non-original rifle, with a good bore to its former 3 band configuration with a 45 LC chamber, in my book, can only increase the value of the rifle. You are bringing the rifle back to life, to do what it was intended to do... shoot. My 2 cents worth.
    Jack Conway
    69th NY

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