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Thread: Smoothbore Theory

  1. #1
    Eggman's Avatar
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    Smoothbore Theory

    Alright I concede that some folks shoot these things with impressive accuracy. For example I decided to watch Lani Harrison compete in the smoothbore match at Eva,TN last fall. If I remember right he had no misses. That's right, no misses.
    I asked him to show me what he was using (everyone already knows about his shooting skill). There was the usual foil cartridge; he displayed some perfectly round balls, all buggered up with a file he said; all were covered with Alox. He was shooting a fairly heavy charge I believe, but I don't remember how much.
    So----------smoothbore masters, please explain:
    1. Why does the ball exit the bore in a consistently straight line--- why does it not bounce back and forth inside the walls of the barrel with the last barrel contact determining flight direction?
    2. What is the difference between barrel diameter vs. ball diameter -- how are you filling the space between the two?
    3. What do the dimples/rough areas in the ball do?
    4. Why Alox?
    I remember back in the day when old Sam Fadala said round balls "obturate" when fired. In other words he said they flatten out when fired filling the bore. Is this what is happening?

  2. #2
    hp gregory is offline
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    im not a smoothbore master but i have some ideas as to what MAY be going on inside the bore. it would seem a tight fitting ball wont shoot as well as a loose fitting one. could this be because the gas flows around the ball and centers it in the bore? hard to say. but i do know every smoothbore i have had will shoot a looser ball better than a tight one. as for the dimples. i guess if they work for a golf ball they would work on a smoothy ball. the alox seems to work well because it drys hard. unlike a musket where you want the lube to keep the fouling soft the alox remains hard and the fouling is like dust instead of sludge. as for the ball upseting to bore dia. dont count on that. i dont think that happens. it takes a lot to upset a solid lead round ball. the fit that seems to work in my gun is one where the ball barely sits on the muzzle. it practicaly falls down the bore. in fact the very thin coat of alox seems to be the only thing keeping gravity from pulling the ball down the bore. one thing i consider important when working up the ball is to remove the sprue before rolling the ball. you want the ball to be as perfect as you can get it so that as it clears the crown on the muzzle there are no imperfections that will affect the balls flight. shooting a smoothbore is a game where you try to perfect a process then repeat that process over and over. all you have working for you with a smoothbore is the ammo. good ammo will hopefully give you the good shots you are looking for.

    hp

  3. #3
    efritz is offline
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    I'd be very interested also to hear form some of the DSSA smoothbore winners. If you are one, please weigh in on the subject. I've had some successful and some not so successful outings. I'd put more faith in a DSSA winner, as obtaining high enough scores in 25y and 50y smoothbore firing a total of 20 shots for score and doing it enough times to obtain the required 25 points is proof enough for me.
    l
    As to the questions I offer my humble opinions.

    First, unless someone can show me a round ball being shot through a glass barrel, I don't think anyone can say what that ball is doing. Some say it's riding on a cushion of air. I need proof. Now if you get up to near bore size, fouling becomes a problem. So one of the best questions is ball to bore size.

    Second, the roughing of the ball simply allows more lube to adhere to the ball. But it also inlarges the ball. Back to ball to bore ratio. What do you start with and than inlarge to? I'm guessing as to the purpose of the foil is to make up any space between ball and bore. I once inquired to a professional mould making company if they could make me a round ball mould with the dimples like a golf ball. After a lengthy discussion, he said the dimples will not make the ball fly any straighter. It only works on golf balls because of the low speeds compared to bullets. It would be a waist of time and money.

    Third, Alox? Your guess is as good as mine. I admit it works better than my musket/carbine lube but I also hate it because of the fouling. I can shoot my musket/carbine all day and tommorow without brushing or cleaning and no fouling. Smoothbore with Alox and I have to clean and not just brush after each event. Shooting 10 shots for score and 4-5 sighters and after about 8 it gets mighty tough getting the rest of them down the tube.

    I will let everyone in on a little experiment I tried some time back. I took a .72 cal. round ball and put it through several different sizers for a .69 cal smoothbore. Effectively putting a band around the ball. (I don't think there's a rule in the rule book about sizing round balls.)
    I tried all kinds of different powder, grains, weights, and lube. Benched the gun and never got a group much better than a dinner plate at 25y. Oh, and I did manage to get a round ball to key hole too.

    SO. DSSA'rs. Weigh in.
    When in doubt, mumble, when in trouble, delegate.

  4. #4
    Brownie 12th U.S. is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp gregory View Post
    im not a smoothbore master but i have some ideas as to what MAY be going on inside the bore. it would seem a tight fitting ball wont shoot as well as a loose fitting one. could this be because the gas flows around the ball and centers it in the bore? hard to say. but i do know every smoothbore i have had will shoot a looser ball better than a tight one. as for the dimples. i guess if they work for a golf ball they would work on a smoothy ball. the alox seems to work well because it drys hard. unlike a musket where you want the lube to keep the fouling soft the alox remains hard and the fouling is like dust instead of sludge. as for the ball upseting to bore dia. dont count on that. i dont think that happens. it takes a lot to upset a solid lead round ball. the fit that seems to work in my gun is one where the ball barely sits on the muzzle. it practicaly falls down the bore. in fact the very thin coat of alox seems to be the only thing keeping gravity from pulling the ball down the bore. one thing i consider important when working up the ball is to remove the sprue before rolling the ball. you want the ball to be as perfect as you can get it so that as it clears the crown on the muzzle there are no imperfections that will affect the balls flight. shooting a smoothbore is a game where you try to perfect a process then repeat that process over and over. all you have working for you with a smoothbore is the ammo. good ammo will hopefully give you the good shots you are looking for.

    hp
    Bolded above implies that you are not using wheel weights. Is that standard for most smoothbore shooters? I can't imagine it makes a difference with no rifling to engage. But, I too, am trying to learn what makes these magnificently frustrating beasts work best.

    Brownie

  5. #5
    Greg Ogdan 110th OVI is offline
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    Well, Olde Man Rouch on my team holds the 25 yd current record and he doesn't post much. If you engage him in a personal one on one, he will answer any question you may want to ask. "I think" he shoots a ball well shaken in a coffee can, once coated in Alox, in front of 45gr of Goex FFFg. Dont know the ball to bore difference, but I do know he shoots an Original H & P and he says the bore is "shootable" but not pristine by any means.

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    Follow the Guru!

    Jim Lienike wrote an article for the SL several years ago about shooting the SB. Jim Should be given credit for bringing SB forward to its present growth within the NSSA.

    While not a DSSA winner, I do have 10 DSSA points in class one. I follow his teachings and do okay.

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    Eggman's Avatar
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    So refresh us if you will Ed. What did Big Jim say?? In particular to the questions in post #1.

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    DSSA winners welcome. Also anyone else who has put together a string of five or more hits in a row on the line with these things please. From experience -- great ideas can come from anywhere.

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    Well, the '42 I shot at the last skirmish the balls were simply coated in Alox. They appeared smooth with no file marks. They fit in the barrel snuggly enough that I could feel them compressing air under them as I pushed them down onto the powder during loading.

    I put 4 in the black and 1 just oustide it at 25 yards. I bet if I had bought another re-entry I could have done even better.

    Unfortunately I did not make up the charges so I don't know what kind or how much powder was in them.

    Steve

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    So, how do you carry your SB cartridges to the line?

    Do you use the black rubber cartridges and place the RB in the end over the powder like we do for musket loads ( I find this to be a little awkward for loading)....or, do you carry pre weighed charges in tubes and the RB separately....?
    Frank ( MIKE) Hale, 0063V
    First Richmond Rifles, 003CV

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