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Thread: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

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    Damon is offline
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    Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    Hi all,
    Pedersoli has its new (ex. Euroarms models) Civil War Era muzzleloads on its website now. Pitty the P'1853 Enfield has the incorrect rate of twist, but the P'1858 and P'1861 do have the correct rate of twist and number of grooves. Unfortunately no mention if progressive depth rifling is used or not.

    Damon in Australia

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    Link:

    http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda- ... -band.html

    What is the historically-correct twist?
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

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    Southron Sr. is offline
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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    If I recall correctly, for the P-53 it was 1 in 78, three lands and grooves.

    I am surprised that Pedersoli didn't copy the original twist exactly. The company is heavily involved sponsoring the Italian team in the International Muzzleloading Matches. Those rules require that replica arms have the same rifling twist, lands and grooves as the originals.

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    The only reasons I can think of for the deviation of the P'53 from historically acurate rifling are:
    1. All the other new 3 land and groove rifles are 1 in 66"
    2. Most international level shooters would choose the P'58 Naval rifle.

    Damon

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    Hello All,

    Pedersoli is just starting this product line. They planned to take over the Euroarms line, but now they have to change many things to have the fully accurate rifle copies. They are going to produce their own barrels, with the correct riflings: 1:72" 3 grooves for Springfield and Richmond 3 band, 1:78" 3 grooves for Enfield 3 bands, 1:48" 5 grooves for Enfield 2 band. There are two quality levels at Pedersoli: 1st PMG, 2nd all other. All Pedersoli PMG (Pedersoli Match Grade) barrels have a kind of progressive depth rifling thanks to the manufacturing process. They are lead lapped from the rear, so the dia between the lands at the muzzle is usally smaller than at the breech. So it is not the traditional progressive rifling of the originals. By now I can't tell you wich category the rifle musket barrels will be, but if they use the same technique as with the 1857 Mauser rifles, we can be sure that their rifles will be deadly accurate. The 1857 won many-many international medals so far.

    Best,
    Space Cowboy

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    Hello Space Cowboy,

    Thank you for the update on the Pedersolie P53 Musket. I have been eagerly hoping for a really good copy of a 3rd model P53 Enfield. I'm willing to pay a premium above the usual ArmiSport and Euroarms prices to buy one.

    What is the source for your information? Can you tell us more?

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    It would be nice if folks would drop Pedersoli a line encouraging them to make an accurate P53 for reenactors.

    http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/contatti.asp?l=en
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    Hell Maillemaker,

    I am the editor in chief of Pedersoli's Blackpowder No. 1. magazin, so the source of info is directly from factory. If you have any specific questions, just let me know. I'll try to get accurate info for you.

    Best regards,
    SC

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    Hi SC,

    Wow, that's great!

    I have emailed Pedersoli several times with questions/suggestions and not gotten a response.

    Now I'm a beginner at all of this so take this with a grain of salt:

    My understanding is that the original Parker-Hale P1853 reproduction was based off a 4th-model P1853. This variant was never used in the American Civil War. A better reproduction would be based off of the 3rd model. Also the hammer that Parker-Hale used was incorrect - it is smaller than is found on original P1853s. There are also inaccuracies in the shape of the stock. These deficiencies were copied by the later Italian reproductions.

    It would be fantastic if Pedersoli was re-tooling their P1853 to be representative of the 3rd model P1853. It would also be nice if they could put the modern markings (serial number, black powder warning, etc.) on the underside of the barrel where they are hidden by the stock, if this is at all possible.

    A good article to read concerning "Authenticizing Your Enfield":

    http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/art ... nfauth.htm

    It should probably be interesting to Pedersoli to note that there are at least a couple folks out there in the business of "defarbing" Enfield muskets to make them look more authentic. People pay around $300 for this service, on top of the base price of the muskets, which now sell new from ArmiSport for around $630 or so.

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

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    Re: Pedersoli Civil War Muzzleloaders

    Hi Steve,

    I sent your notes directly to Pierangelo Pedersoli. I am sure he will find your points interesting. As far as I know the most important Enfields from the shooters point of view are the following ones:

    - P1853 rifle musket early .577 39" 3 equal size grooves 1:78" unfirorm twist depth (0,014")
    - P1853 rifle musket late .577 39" 3 equal size grooves 1:78" progressive twist depth (0,005" at the muzzle, 0,013" at the breech)
    - P1856 rifle .577 33" 3 equal size grooves 1:78" unfirorm twist depth (0,014")
    - P1858 Naval Rifle 33" 5 equal size grooves 1:48" unfirorm twist depth (0,014")
    - P1861 Rifle 33" 5 equal size grooves 1:48" progressive twist depth (0,005" at the muzzle, 0,013" at the breech)
    - P1859 and P1858 Short rifle 24" 3 equal size grooves 1:78" unfirorm twist depth (0,014")
    - P1861 Short Rifle 24" 5 equal size grooves 1:48" unfirorm twist depth (0,014")

    Which is the one you mentioned?

    These are the models that are copied nowdays. Pedersoli's main attention is on the barrels and riflings now. Unfortunately there are no replicas on the market that 100% reproduce the original riflings...

    Cheers,
    SC

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