Henry bore leading

[Bob Huntoon]

What is causing bore leading in the 4 inches in front of the chamber in my henry?

Cleaning it last fall, the patch brought out stringers that looked like the old kind of metallic "icicles" we used to have for Christmas Trees - back in the day.

429 bore - shooting 430 bullets probably about brinell 12.

Had bore leading on Cowboy '73 and knew it was a lube problem.

Any ideas - suggestions?

Digger

[DAVE FRANCE]

Hi Bob,

I read a lot about ammunition for Henrys and lever rifles in the past three years.

I think the most common cause of leading is caused by pressure making the bullet expand enough to cause RADIAL pressure that is too much for the lube to handle without the lube breaking down so there is bare metal to bare metal. That is very much like what happens in engines if the oil pressure is not high enough and the oil film thick enough.

I would try reducing the diameter of the bullet by another thousandth when you size the bullet. I read that if the throat in front of the chamber is not right, that will cause leading. It needs to neck down to the groove diameter, not smaller. Both of the lever rifles I have have the same throat diameter as the groove diameter. I have an excellent reference about rifle accuracy, and the author says no factory rifles are chambered accurately. (RIFLE ACCURACY FACTS)

I went to the range about three weeks ago and forgot my cleaning rod. I shot at least 50 rounds with my 73 Winchester without cleaning and had no problem. I just use 60% beeswax and 40% Mobil One. I went to a silhouette shoot with the same rifle the next week, and I did not have time to clean between events. So, I fired 60 rounds without cleaning and the rifle was still shooting well, and I found no trace of leading afterwards.

I use the same bullet (at least nominally - .528) as the bore (groove diameter) of my rifle. I size the bullet at .528 and lube with a lubrisizer. the bullet cleans up all the way around, but little metal is removed. The bullets are not perfectly round before sizing, but I don't think any cast bullets are. I talked to Tom L., Rich C., and Bruce C., about this a year or so ago. And they agreed that bullets won't come out of the mold perfectly because of uneven cooling of the mold and bullet.

The NRA did a big study of sizing bullets versus no sizing. They did a very detailed, very long, test of sized versus unsized bullets in pistols that was reported in the "Cast Bullets" book by the NRA. The unsized bullets did better. You have to size some to get bullets that will fit the bore. One reloading book I have says that the more that is sized off the worse the accuracy will be. Can't remember which one.

I joined SASS and NCOWS last year. NCOWS shoots at longer distances. There are 6 places that shoot CAS or silhouette within 100 miles from where I live - just East of Dallas. And there are a lot more withine 150 miles.

I bought my copy of Cast Bullets from a reloading shop in Michigan. The original price on the book was $1. It first belonged to a shooter who passed away. Now I have had it for over 25 years, and I still value it, even though one of my dogs ate the front cover off.

Good luck!

Let me know what you find out.

David

[DAVE FRANCE]

CORRRECTION FOR MY LAST POSTING

I should have written the number 0.428 where I wrote .528.

David

[Joe 3rd N C Art 2440V]

As with shooting lead boolets in any cartridge rifle, size 1 - 2 thous. over bore. Your bullets are probably too small.

[Rebel Dave]

Make sure you are using the corect alloy lead. What is brinnel 12,??. I can't find my chart, but I only use soft lead, in my 73 and 66 Wins (Ubertis). 12 might be to hard. Actually, I use the same lead as for my muskets. They are .001-.002 over bore dia.

Use a bullet with good lube carrying capabilty. Use only natural ingredience in your lube, just as in your musket. I use 50/50 bees wax and tallow, varying the mixture with the time of year, and temp. I use a .030 white cardboard wad (I get them from Track of the Wolf) over my compressed black powder load, it seems to work good, don't know if it helps or not tho.

I had good results with commercial bullets from Buffalo Arms Co. and Bullets from powder Inc. They use SPG lube in their bullets. resonable prices also. I have also read lots of good about Big lube LLC bullets and molds, they're bullets carry lots of lube.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

Rebel Dave

[Walt Magee]

Try putting a couple of layers of dental bite wax under the bullet along with 50/50 beeswax and crisco on the outside. That should slow down the leading but everyone I know has experienced some amount of leading.
Walt

[DAVE FRANCE]

I have never had any sign of leading in any firearm I have owned. I used fairly hard lead for all breech loading ammunition, and I used different types of lube. I did not use Crisco in any lube, but tried many others. I think the leading witch just puts a spell on some who are unlucky. I was married to a witch once; maybe she helped me with an antispell.

David

[Yancey von Yeast, 8073]

I started with a brand new Cimmarron Henry. Mine had a bore from the factory that was so rough that I could feel it with a patch on a jag. Mine leaded and even clean, did not shoot anything but a pattern. Bob Hoyt lined mine and now it is amazing. One hole from a rest at 50 yards is standard. I have tried soft and hard lead and found that I go no leading with either but the group size was 1/16th inch tighter with 1/20 tin and pure lead. I also use Dave's mobile one and bees wax lube. I like the 429667 from Lyman for a bullet. It is 240 grains and holds a nice amount of lube.

[DAVE FRANCE]

Yancey,

I think your rifle with the Hoyt barrel shoots better than most Henrys. Do you agree? Both lever rifles I have will shoot about one inch groups at 50 yards.

David

[Yancey von Yeast, 8073]

Dave,

I have no prior experience with Henrys other than mine. From what I am hearing it does shoot very well. I have heard of others having tons of problems and Hoyt says that they won't shoot black powder well with the factory barrels.

It also shoots the Mav Dutchman big lubes well, but It actually does better with the 429667 so I have not invested the money in the big lube mould. I have never skrimished with the Henry, I'm married to my sharps rifle.