Smith Carbine with BP Substitute

**oscarlovel** · 04-02-2008

My Skirmishing days have been over for a decade now since I went into ministry (kind of hard to get weekends off LOL!), but I just bought a Dixie Smith and 50 black plastic tubes. Since Pyrodex, Geox Pinnacle, etc. is very available, whereas BP is not, I was hoping some of you could share your experiences using any of these powders in the Pietta Smith. I would appreciate any hints, pros and cons, loading data, etc. Thanks! Miss you folks.

Rev. Clinton Lovell
Formerly with NBFE, Deep South Region

**paul w/McGregor's 385V** · 04-02-2008

Rev. Lovel,
I suggest you not use the substitutes, but obtain Goex blackpowder for your Smith.

The design was for blackpowder and using a substitute may allow you to exceed the safe pressures. Modern steel not withstanding.

Quite a few folk are using 28gr FFFg and the .515 bullet with tight groups.

Take care and be safe
pfb

**Mr. Apol** · 04-03-2008

Originally Posted by oscarlovel

My Skirmishing days have been over for a decade now since I went into ministry (kind of hard to get weekends off LOL!), but I just bought a Dixie Smith and 50 black plastic tubes. Since Pyrodex, Geox Pinnacle, etc. is very available, whereas BP is not, I was hoping some of you could share your experiences using any of these powders in the Pietta Smith. I would appreciate any hints, pros and cons, loading data, etc. Thanks! Miss you folks.

Rev. Clinton Lovell
Formerly with NBFE, Deep South Region

I'm not a skirmisher, just a collector and shooter. I shoot Smith, Gallagher, and Sharps carbines exclusively with black powder substitutes--chiefly American Pioneer Powder and Triple 7, as these are very common where I am. I cannot find real blackpowder at any gun shop, gun show, etc. I would have to mail order in quantities I wouldn't use up in a year, and I am not comfortable storing such amounts of powder. So I use substitutes.

They work fine. They can be harder to ignite than real blackpowder, so I use hot CCI musket caps. Even so, I experience misfires; about one in ten shots on the Smith, one is seven in the Gallagher, and one in twenty with a Euroarms Sharps. Its annoying, but part of the game. If you want 100% bangs, try an AK. ;-)

You have to measure substitutes by *volume* not by weight. They are ounce for ounce more potent than real black. If your load is 30 grains of real stuff, then you have to cut back on the substitute by 10% by volume or so. Check the websites for more load data. I've had no problems with accuracy or overpressure using Triple 7 or APP as long as you remember to load by volume, not weight. I have a set of Lee powder dippers, and they work well in this regard.

I used to use Pyrodex, but it is very corrosive, so as long as I'm using substitutes I might as well use less corrosive concoctions.

APP is very smoky and smells like burnt sugar when fired. Triple 7 seems easier to ignite, is more powerful, and is a lot less smoky. Both clean up with water. You don't even have to use lube with APP, as it leaves a slick, chalky residue in the barrel that acts like a lube. Using lube just makes more mess to clean up. With Triple 7 I use a regular smokeless type lube.

Folks sneer at the substitutes, but I have fun shooting with them.

Paul

**oscarlovel** · 04-03-2008

Originally Posted by Mr. Apol

Originally Posted by oscarlovel

My Skirmishing days have been over for a decade now since I went into ministry (kind of hard to get weekends off LOL!), but I just bought a Dixie Smith and 50 black plastic tubes. Since Pyrodex, Geox Pinnacle, etc. is very available, whereas BP is not, I was hoping some of you could share your experiences using any of these powders in the Pietta Smith. I would appreciate any hints, pros and cons, loading data, etc. Thanks! Miss you folks.

Rev. Clinton Lovell
Formerly with NBFE, Deep South Region

I'm not a skirmisher, just a collector and shooter. I shoot Smith, Gallagher, and Sharps carbines exclusively with black powder substitutes--chiefly American Pioneer Powder and Triple 7, as these are very common where I am. I cannot find real blackpowder at any gun shop, gun show, etc. I would have to mail order in quantities I wouldn't use up in a year, and I am not comfortable storing such amounts of powder. So I use substitutes.

They work fine. They can be harder to ignite than real blackpowder, so I use hot CCI musket caps. Even so, I experience misfires; about one in ten shots on the Smith, one is seven in the Gallagher, and one in twenty with a Euroarms Sharps. Its annoying, but part of the game. If you want 100% bangs, try an AK. ;-)

You have to measure substitutes by *volume* not by weight. They are ounce for ounce more potent than real black. If your load is 30 grains of real stuff, then you have to cut back on the substitute by 10% by volume or so. Check the websites for more load data. I've had no problems with accuracy or overpressure using Triple 7 or APP as long as you remember to load by volume, not weight. I have a set of Lee powder dippers, and they work well in this regard.

I used to use Pyrodex, but it is very corrosive, so as long as I'm using substitutes I might as well use less corrosive concoctions.

APP is very smoky and smells like burnt sugar when fired. Triple 7 seems easier to ignite, is more powerful, and is a lot less smoky. Both clean up with water. You don't even have to use lube with APP, as it leaves a slick, chalky residue in the barrel that acts like a lube. Using lube just makes more mess to clean up. With Triple 7 I use a regular smokeless type lube.

Folks sneer at the substitutes, but I have fun shooting with them.

Paul

All that being said, can you give me loading data for the APP and 777 in the Smith? I'll be using the 515 bullet that Dixie sells for now (Rapine mold, I understand). I would certainly appreciate the info!