The Russian "Enfield"

[54thvareb]

Were there any Russian weapons imported during the Civil War? Are there any reports that varify this? Thanks Richard

[R. McAuley 3014V]

CENSORED

[Don Dixon]

Were Russian arms imported? It appears that they might have been.

At the conclusion of the Civil War, the Federal government rapidly began disposing of surplus arms. The War Department reported to Congress that by July 1, 1870, immediately before the beginning of the Franco-Prussian War, the Federal government had had remaining in inventory only 699,134 serviceable Model 1855-64 Springfield rifle muskets, and 193,536 serviceable Pattern 1853-61 Enfield rifle muskets. All other foreign weapons had been disposed of. The Federal government did not track weapons in the hands of the organized militia at the time, and their arms did not appear in the report. For example, half of the Wisconsin organized militia was still armed with Muster 1849 or 1842 Austrian Kammerbusche (Garibaldi rifles), at the same time the Federal government was selling vast quantities of arms, including breech loaders, to international arms dealers to equip the French during the Franco-Prussian War.

One of the Federal army auction sales during this disposal frenzy may answer your question in part. On 11 January 1866, the New York Times ran an advertisement on page 6 regarding an impending 22 January 1866 public auction of "condemned" ordnance stores at the U.S. Arsenal, Columbus, OH. Among the arms to be sold were:

"4,000 Russian rifle muskets, cal. 71, new"
"4,000 Russian smooth-bore muskets, cal. 71, new"

The auction was advertised in the Times because the international arms brokers -- such as Herman Boker and Company, and Schuyler, Hartley and Graham -- had their U.S. offices in New York. The same issue of the Times also listed ordnance auctions at Allegheny Arsenal, Pittsburgh, PA; and the Indianapolis Arsenal, Indianapolis, IN.

What models of Russian weapons these might have been, I have no idea. Russian muzzle loaders are not one of my current areas of expertise. I also can't tell where they came from: i.e., purchased by the Federal government, seized off of a blockade runner, etc. It is also possible that the ordnance officer or the Times type setter was an idiot and misprinted Prussian into Russian. Looks like an interesting research project. The Times advertisement might, at least, be a starting point.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

I seem to remember several Nationals back, a sutler had a musket that he described as one of a few hundred muskets imported from Russia. At the time, I was not interested in any foreign imports so I did not examine it closely. It was a sutler I believe based in Gettysburg. I do remember it was a larger than 58 bore.

[Richard Hill]

There's a VERY good possibility that the listed "Russian" guns were actually "Prussian" guns, of which both rifle-muskets (M1839) and smoothbores (M1809) were imported, both in .72 caliber. Some War Department clerk probably mis-copied the entry. Also included in these lists under "CARBINES" are Minie Carbines No 2 and Minie Carbines No 5. These were actually Belgian-made Carabines No 2 and Carabines No 5 (French Vincennes-type rifles) made for "H Holthausen". Another "typo".

In the book "L'Armurerie Liegeoise Et La Guerre De Secession 1861-1865" the author, Francis Balace, states that the Belgian arms makers bought as scrap captured Russian arms (copies of the Franco/Belgian M1842) from the Crimean War and broke them up for parts. Most parts were dumped in the melting pots but the better stuff was used in new production, some of which made their way over here. Buttplates especially may have had Russian letters stamped on them.

[Bob F, 1st NJLA]

I don't know how many different model Russian muskets were imported, but if they all were .71 caliber than most likely they were Russian Model 1828 muskets. I know this model was still being manufactured as late as 1838 because that is the date on the example I have. There is also one in the West Point Museum collection. Both are smoothbores and were converted to percussion by the french method, screwing a spherical bolster into the top of the barrel, then screwing the cone into the bolster. In their original flintlock state the lock parts are just about identical to French year IX locks and the mountings are brass. The stocks are rather straight and have undersize butts with a small cheekpiece.

Bob

[Don Dixon]

I'm going to resurrect a very old thread here.

I was going through ledgers on Federal Army arms procurements at the Archives when I found an entry that on 8 March 1862 the Ordnance Office had purchased 89 "Russian" Rifle Muskets from Schuyler, Hartley, and Graham of New York for $8.50 each. The total purchase price of $756.50 was paid on 21 March 1862. (RG156, Entry 83, Page 195)

Not quite enough for John and the Small Arms Committee to let us shoot them.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Bob Lintner]

I don't know how many different model Russian muskets were imported, but if they all were .71 caliber than most likely they were Russian Model 1828 muskets. I know this model was still being manufactured as late as 1838 because that is the date on the example I have. There is also one in the West Point Museum collection. Both are smoothbores and were converted to percussion by the french method, screwing a spherical bolster into the top of the barrel, then screwing the cone into the bolster. In their original flintlock state the lock parts are just about identical to French year IX locks and the mountings are brass. The stocks are rather straight and have undersize butts with a small cheekpiece.

Bob

Hi Bob! Good to hear from you. Thanks for the great info.
Bob

[hobbler]

So the British and the Russians were using .70-ish caliber rifled muskets at about the same time frame?