Goex Black dawg cartridges

[Terry Davis 10639]

FYI I disassembled a Goex cartridge last night to see how they are put together. This was the 235 grain lead bullet, and was not the reduced recoil loads in 45 LC caliber.

After pulling the bullet, I found a thin layer of filler material under the bullet. looked like find tumbleing media. I removed most of it until I got to the powder, which had been compressed by the bullet and media pressure.
I measured the charge, which had some grains of media in it, but not much. Measured 31 grains. I am going to guess that the media may have added the 1 grain, and that it was a 30 grain charge.
The powder has some grains that were coarser than 3F, but then some of it was fine and powdery. I could have done that while removing it, however.
I was surprised to find it was not all fine grain.
I
have a dillon press and dies for 45 lc, but have not yet set up for loading them. I know that dillon recommends not loading with black powder.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I really wish I had bought a turret press rather than a progressive, but I thought it was what I wanted at the time.....

Terry

[Bob Seng, 10979]

Terry couple of questions.......when you pulled the bullett how full was the case ? and did the filler and powder look like it had been compressed by the bullett?

[Terry Davis 10639]

Terry couple of questions.......when you pulled the bullett how full was the case ? and did the filler and powder look like it had been compressed by the bullett?

Completely full. Yes, It appeared that the bullet put some compression on the charge. Once the bullet was off, I could probably have turned the case upside down and nothing would have fallen out. I had to loosen the filler a bit to get it to pour out. Even then some of the powder was compressed enough that it had to be persuaded to come out.

[Frog]

I have loaded several thousand rounds of 44/40 with BP in my Dillon 550. I have also never used a filler in the 44/40, Smith or Maynard cartridges. My accuracy with those loads is limited by the loose nut behind the butt, not the ammo.

[Terry Davis 10639]

I have loaded several thousand rounds of 44/40 with BP in my Dillon 550. I have also never used a filler in the 44/40, Smith or Maynard cartridges. My accuracy with those loads is limited by the loose nut behind the butt, not the ammo.

Do you do anything special with the powder charge? Some make a big deal out of using a drop tube to compress the charge.
How do you meter the powder? with the dillion set up, or seperatly?

[Frog]

Standard Dillon powder measure. I used 27.5 Gr. 3F in the 44/40. Never a problem. I used a Lee factory crimp die for the final crimp. I use them for all my pistol calibers.
I was able to run 250-300 per hour easily without trying real hard.

[Terry Schultz, 10057]

Terry
Are you sure it was black powder in the cartridge and not the new Pinical powder sold by Goex? We took one appart and it looked like Pinical to us, and as you know this powder is not approved for N-SSA skirmishing.
Terry

[Terry Davis 10639]

Terry
Are you sure it was black powder in the cartridge and not the new Pinical powder sold by Goex? We took one appart and it looked like Pinical to us, and as you know this powder is not approved for N-SSA skirmishing.
Terry

I don't know for sure what is in them, but a little research at the Goex web site shows that they list Black dawge cartridges as a seperate product from Pinnacle Black Dawge Cartridges.
So, we all know about assumptions, but that leads me to think that the standard black dawge are bp, and the Pinnacle black dawge cartridges are pinnacle powder.

I suppose it is possible that the standard BD cartridges are a mix of BP and Pinnacle, but I have sent an e-mail to Goex customer service for clarification, rather than guessing.

Perhaps you disassembled a Pinnacle Black Dawge Cartridge?

I know what I have is not the Pinnacle Black Dawge version, and it sure smoked and smelled like good old Goex.

Attached below is a screen shot from the Goex page. If you look carefully under products, you will see the two different cartridges.

And yes, I am well aware that substitue black powder is not allowed. I mainly wanted to see what they are loading for a charge weight for a starting point for my own loads. At $25 or so a box, I don't think you have to worry about someone using them much, at least not me.


Terry

[Terry Davis 10639]

As a follow up, here is the official response from Goex:

Dear Mr. Davis, Thank you for your inquiry. You are correct. The standard Black Dawge cartridges are loaded with black powder. There is a separate line of cartridges that are loaded with Pinnacle. The Pinnacle loads come in a different color box, and are labeled as being loaded with Pinnacle.

Sincerely, Bill Bagwell

Now what he didn't tell me was what type of black powder it is. 2f, 3f or that "cartridge grade". I assume cartridge grade is finer, but I don't know what the difference is since I have never seen it.

So, if you REALLY hate reloading for henry, and can shell out $25 or so per 50 rounds, you are in luck. In my case, they really were not that accurate out of my Henry, even off the bench. I tried both the regular and reduced recoil loads. Regular grouped slightly better.

Terry

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

Terry,

I suspect the cartridges are loaded with .425-.427 sized bullets. Most of the Henry's, mine included take .429-430 to shoot a tight group. Tried for months to get a friend's Henry to shoot right with factory loads and then some hand loads he put together. Pulled the bullets and replaced with .429 bullets that I use on my Henry, group tightened up to great.

I have some Cartridge grade Goex. It appears a little finer granule than 2Fg but not as fine as a 3Fg.