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Thread: 2 Band Rifle-Musket, Rifle or Artillery Model?

  1. #1
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    2 Band Rifle-Musket, Rifle or Artillery Model?

    I am new to Civil War arms and have been trying to figure the difference between a 2 band rifle-musket like a Fayetteville, a rifle and an artillery model. Can any of you lay it all out for me?
    Scott Kurki
    The Dulany Troop, 6th Virginia Cavalry

  2. #2
    J Weber 4114V is offline
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    I will take a stab at this. For us a rifle is a 2 band weapon that was orgionaly made that way ie 41 Mississippi, 55 rifle, Zouave. There were many southern and contract types also made. They all typically have a 32”-33” barrel.
    Artillery model would be a standard 3 band “rifled musket that is cut down to rifle length.
    Here is where it gets a bit odd. There are only union records of a small number of 1855 rifled muskets being converted to the “artillery” type. Yet there are 1000s of 1861 and 1863s orgionial artillerys about .
    These were all done post war from surplus arms by firms such as Bannermans for sale to military schools etc. With very little actual use many of these rifles were used by N-SSA members in the early days so they were grandfathered in by our Small Arms people decades ago.
    They have spec sheets on all of them so many of our members are still building them.
    This is it in a nutshell.
    Check out the “approved firearm” list off the home page and ask any SAC member if you have something that does not fit.
    If shooting,fixing,making and thunking were easy.Everyone would be doing it.

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    Jim

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    Thanks Jim. That helps explain allot to me. I was hearing different terms being used and also seeing them used in various documents and it was just confussing me. So a Fayetteville would be a rifle because it was designed or at least built as a 2 band gun instead of being cut down from a 3 band.

    So then are the cut down versions the only ones considered artillery types or are all rifle length guns considered artillery types?
    Scott Kurki
    The Dulany Troop, 6th Virginia Cavalry

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    Cutdowns are "artillery", as Jim said. If the gun was originally made in a 2 band configuration, it is a rifle. Examples are Zouave, 1841 "Mississippi", 1855 rifle. These guns also will have thicker barrels than cutdowns.
    Greg Ogdan, 11444
    110th OVI

  5. #5
    J Weber 4114V is offline
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    skurki,you got it. Remember that the terms we use today were are not what they commonly used then.
    Musket = smoothbore
    Riflemusket = smoothbore converted by rifling ie some 1816s or 1842s
    Rifled musket = standard 3 band
    rifle = 33"barrled short rifle
    Artillery rifle = 99% of the time a cutdown post war mod of a rifled musket
    Another sabot to be thrown in the works this applys to american made stuff only.You can not cut down a Enfield to a artillery.It just was not done and would not pass the SAC inspectors.
    When you get into the other imports from europe I will defer to the experts.
    Hope this helps.
    If shooting,fixing,making and thunking were easy.Everyone would be doing it.

    There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental,
    justifiable, and praiseworthy.
    - Ambrose Bierce


    Jim

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    Jim_Burgess_2078V is offline
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    Nomenclature

    I beg to differ slightly with Jim Weber's last post. A "rifled musket" is a converted/altered smoothbore (often .69 cal.). A "rifle-musket" is a 3-band, musket length arm originally rifled at the time of manufacture (mostly .58 cal.) and the so-called "artillery models" are cut down versions of the latter.
    -Jim Burgess, 15th Conn. Vol. Inf.

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    Thanks again folks, this is very interesting. There is so much to this hobby that I cannot ever see an end to the learning. The part about the Artillery Rifle being a little lighter than a rifle is of particular interest to ,e because I have an old shoulder injury and I am trying to take a little nose weight off my long arms to help me deal with it. Still, I do not want a gun so light that it beats my other shoulder up either.
    Scott Kurki
    The Dulany Troop, 6th Virginia Cavalry

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    Southron Sr. is offline
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    2 Band, "Artillery Rifles"

    While I will admit that many three band rifle-muskets were "cut down" in the post-war era by surplus dealers, they existed during the war.

    Whitney made and sold a two-band "Artillery Rifle" that had a flush lockplate. According to a reference work I have, some of the Special Model 1861's were delivered from the factory as two-band "Artillery Rifles."

    Some of the "proof" that is cited for the non-existance of two-band "Artillery Rifles" is the "fact" that no one has found a Civil War era photograph of a soldier holding a two-band "Artillery Rifle" in the photo.

    That is about as illogical as saying because there is not a photo of General Lee sleeping in his tent, he never slept in a tent!

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    2 Band Rifle-Musket, Rifle or Artillery Model?

    So what exactly is a "Minie musket"?

    Barrett-7th Va

  10. #10
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    Minie Musket

    Barrett,
    The Minie Musket was a French .69 smoothbore, that the French rifled to fire the more accurate bullet designed by Minie.

    Coincidentally, there was a segment on Minie and the development of the Minie bullet on the History Channel.

    Take care and be safe
    pfb

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