New LeMat - need advice

[LeMat1856]

hello all,

i purchased my first black powder pistol last july and have been to the local ranges 3 times with no major problems, so far.

this does not mean that i feel totally comfortable with many of my decisions or the advice i have gotten from friends on muzzleloading forums, so i have joined the nssa as it seems to be the most diverse and depthful of sources i could find.

in order of concern are issues of materials and workmanship in the lemat itself; proper loading and use of wads, grains of 2f and 3f powder; and cleaning and lubricating substances. fortunately, i have no difficulty aiming and pulling the trigger.

this is a pietta sold through cabela's online. it arrived with a 10 page owners manual that had little more than general recommendations for powder, round ball and shot, cleaning, and a nice parts diagram. overall, the item is well made with some questionable aspects:

1) there is a tool mark on the frame where the right wooden grip seems to have been wedged into position.

2) the right wooden grip has a crack on the inside surface that is about 1/4" deep and 1/2" long. it does not extend to the outside surface, yet.

3) the hammer is off-center when i look at the alignment of the thumb flange and frame. it seems curved to the left by about 1/16" when the hammer is in full cocked position.

3) day one, the loading lever tube poped out of it's spring lock after every round fired. it still does. i have attempted to tighten the spring.

4) the hammer is unevenly finished at the nipple end. percussion caps actually land in a recessed area but the overhanging steel is angled unevenly while the striking surface is flat.

5) the triggerguard is not flush with the frame. the leading end is about 1/16" from the frame where it is screwed in. the rear is fine.

6) the drop down portion of the hammer, which ignites the underbore 20g cap, strikes the cap at half way from top to bottom. caps detonate, but i am wondering if this should strike 100% of the cap, not 50%.

7) some cosmetic issues are: poor fit of right wooden stock to frame, missed engraving on cylinder, makers marks incompletely stamped on .44 barrel, a stamped/engraved "col. lemat" with floral scrollwork is offcenter on the top of the .44 barrel.

LOADING
currently i am using 25 grains 3f with a .44/.45 lubed felt wad and .454 hornady round ball covered with t/c bore butter for the 9 round revolver.

for the 20g smoothbore, i use 30 grains 2f with a 1/8" 'nitro' overpowder card followed by a 1/2" fiber wad with 1 oz of .27" #2 buck shot topped with a .030" .672" overshot card. both powders are goex real black powder. bore butter is applied to the bottom surface of the fiber wad - only. i recently learned that the inside diameter of the '20g' is actually .645" - not .626" - which is closer to 17 1/2 gauge, hence my choice of 16g cards.

CLEANING AND LUBRICATION
the manual simply says "use a good quality solvent and hot water" - that's it.

i have purchased cabela's blackpowder solvent, cleaning patches, jags, wire brushes, and pipe cleaners which are used before rinsing in hot soapy water and then hot clear water and thoroughally dried with a hair dryer and cloth rags, and q-tips. a second round of cotton patches are then run through both barrels and all 9 chambers to be sure all gunk and soot has been removed. additional cleaning is applied if either black or orange residue is found until the final patches are clear.

following the cleaning i apply 'super lube synthetic grease' to the aft surface of the 9 round cylinder where it touches the mechanism, more on the mainspring at the retainer, and a light coating to the threads of the 20g barrel where the cylinder rotates and attaches to the .44 barrel.

any other surfaces are coated with birchwood-casey synthetic gun oil (which has ptfe).

the inside of both barrels and all 9 chambers are coated with cabela's blackpowder pistol lube which is very similar to t/c bore butter but slightly thicker.

SUMMARY
i love this gun. it's a tank. because the front end is so heavy, there is very little recoil and reacquiring the target is fast and surprisingly accurate. i have only 3 targets to show, but at 7 yards my group was quite respectable - 4 rounds in the center circle, the remaining were high and low but inside the 6 1/6" outer circle.

at 25 yards things were quite different. rounds are somewhat high and to the right, then dead on after adjusting. the 'blue whistlers' scatter badly with no pattern whatever. i suppose this was actually designed for more close up and personal engagements.

ADVICE
i am looking for acvice in all 3 areas - physical defects (should it be sent back ?), loading (are my selections correct ?), cleaning and lube (also, are these sufficient and correct ?)

thanks for any comments,
~daniel~

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

First, most of the best folks to answer your question are at our fall nationals in Winchester VA. They will be able to help you better than I will but most will be off line until Monday or Tuesday. Wait a few days and you should get a few responses.

Welcome to the world of Italian Reproductions. Craftmanship is not particularly good. Your call on the sending it back. With the loading lever falling down like that, I would. These guns, while basically safe, are not really made for shooting live fire accurately but to pass the 5 yard test--- to look like the originals from 5 yards away. The main market is the Re-enactor crowd, not the serious shooter. Best not to mail order but to go to a dealer that has several in stock and examine several to get the best one. On occassion, you might get one put together well.

If you keep it, One thing you need to do before you get too far along is to dis-assemble the smaller inner parts and harden them. The Italian repros have become notorious for the inner parts, sear tumbler etc. being too soft for heavy use. They will wear out quickly if you don't. Then you will have to hand fit replacement parts to the weapon.

I will not comment on the shotgun barrel except to say use a wad/card that fits. I have seen many shotguns, not Lemats, where the loader used a smaller or larger wad and it wedged in the barrel and blew the barrel up.

Your loading and cleaning procedures appear okay, but you will receive many varieties of suggestions for cleaning. Each has its own preferred method. Main thing is to get rid of all the fouling and keep it well oiled. One gentleman I know takes the grips off and takes it apart and runs it through the dishwasher!

Pistols for accuracy seem to shoot better with a lighter charge. Most of our group shoot the Remingtons and Rogers and Spencers. I know of no one that shoots a LeMat in competition. Typical charges for 44 calibers are in the 15-20 grain range with a few going up to about 25. Each gun seems to have its own ideal load. You just have to experiment.

With such light loads, you need to use a filler. Most of our group use corn meal, cream of wheat, or grits without a fiber wad. Seat the ball just below the face of the cylinder. Uniformity is the key to accuracy. Do things the same way every time. Most revolver shooters prefer 3F powder, but if you are using Swiss powder, you will either need to back off of the charge or go to FFG rather than FFFg.

You will have as many lube variations as there are stars in the sky. Find one that works for you and stick with it. I prefer SPG lube on my revolvers. Cover the balls like you are doing now.

[Southron Sr.]

When they want to, Pietta can make some of the finest percussion revolvers around. My repro Remington 1858 Pietta "Shooters" revolver is the most accurate pistol I have even owned-and that includes my modern pistols also (Colt, Ruger, etc.)

As for the "floppy" loading lever, that seems to be a design flaw in the original design. The other progblems you mentioned, that seems to be sloppy workmanship.

If it were me, I would send that repro LeMat back to Cabellas as the crack in the frame indicates poor quality control back at the factory. They should replace your gun free of charge.

I would also get on the phone with someone from Cabela's in the gun department and let them know all of your problems with your present LeMat. Ask that person to pick you one out from their stock that is acceptable.

Generally, I hate to order guns mail order because you only get "luck of the draw." I like to go into a shop or dealer that has several guns of the same model, then I can carefully examine each one to pick out the best one.

I look for good "fit and finish," if a revolver I always carefully check the timeing and "lock up" when the hammer is fully cocked (the cylinder should be frozen and shouldn't wiggle or move when I gently try to turn it, etc.)

Whatever gun you end up with, Ed Flint gave you some fine advice in the post above. Find a good "pistolsmith" and ask him to "tune up" the gun for you, including hardening all the necessary internal parts. You will be well pleased with the results.

Check out the SASS website. There are a lot of fine pistol smiths that work on "Cowboy" pistols and they can do a fine job for you.

Good Luck!

[Southron Sr.]

Oops! I ment to write "crack in the grip panel" rather than "crack in the frame!" Anyway, I would still send the revolver back to Cabela's and ask for a replacement.

As for loading info:

On revolvers, I use FFFg rather than FFg simply because FFg produces too much fouling. If you really want a good powder to try, try some of the FFFg equivalent Swiss powder-it produces the least fouling of all in my revolvers and superb accuracy. It is a bit pricey, so I limit it to use in revolvers I shoot in matches.

Your cleaning procedure seems to be O.K. The main thing is to remove all of the fouling, dry the metal and then apply a good quality oil. Every year or so, take the revolver apart and clean out all of that fouling in the "nooks and crannies" you cannot normally get to in your regular cleanings.

[Ron Feidler]

Mr Flint I would send it back to them .I have done this before and gotten
a better one . box it up put in a letter of what is wrong and they will send you a new one .

Ron Feidler
1st South Carolina Volunteers

[LeMat1856]

.
.
. oct 4 / 1:50pm


i wondered why there were so few new posts - the nationals !!

ok, i'll check back later next week for any new suggestions.

there are a few more ticks that i didn't put in the original post, so your suggestion to return for replacement matches the recommendations from others. they call it a "monday lemon." fortunately, i still have the original box and papers.

someone from nssa posted a youtube video on muzzleloadingforum.com and i was mezmurized by all the action of a skirmish. i can't imagine what a 1/4 mile line looks like much less the smells and sounds. definitely a once in a lifetime event. i don't think there's anything even close to it out here in california. actually, there's nothing out here at all for bp that i've found so far. i'm always the only one at the range burning goex.

as a newbie, i don't exactly understand what you mean by "hardening the inside pieces." could you elaborate ?

thanks for your time,

~daniel~

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

Hello again,

Hardening means exactly that, taking a peice of iron or steel and making the surface harder so that it resists wear. Essentially, the process is fairly easy. It involves adding carbon to the steel surface through a heat treatment.

You can do this your self by obtaining a product called Kasenit(sp?) I got mine from Dixie Gun Works. You will need a propane or mapp gas torch and something to hold the part while you heat it to cherry red. Follow the directions on the package. It is not difficult.

The surface is hardened to a few thousands deep into the part. The trick is to not make it so hard it becomes brittle. 2-3 treatments is all you need.

Once in a lifetime, we do it twice a year! :P :P Sorry had to pick on you a bit. If you can get back this way, let us know. It is definitely an event that will get in your blood.

I suggest you check out the CWSA. I think that they are still active on the left coast. Not as large or active as N-SSA, but it should give you an outlet for your CW weapons urges.

www.cwsaweb.com

Hope this helps.

[Ken Hansgen, 11094]

Daniel, I got started blackpowder shooting with the Civil War Skirmish Assn. (CWSA) when I used to live near Sacramento. Since then they have fractured and the NorCal shooters are the Blue-Gray Skirmish Assn. They have a website at http://blue-gray.us/. For more info. call Pres. (Commander) Cleo Fry at 925/447-8544 or Terry McGill at 925/370-1439 or email Cleo at clfry@juno.com or Terry at tmcgill@INCDRA.com. Their home range is near Sorora -- they skirmish there next weekend. Good Shooting!

[matt]

hey ken,
just got off the line shooting the james rifle, missed ya dude. and you yelled at me fro going to disney world last year. lol. musket tomorrow will miss having you on the line with us.
matt
winslow's battery 9975

[Ken Hansgen, 11094]

Sohowjado?