Smith tube lifespan

**John Westenberger** · 08-02-2024

Hello all,

Looking to pick some brains about the lifetime of the classic black smith tubes, with rivet installed.

I bought my smith in October of 2021, and I bought 200 of the black tubes and 2 bags of rivets. I have used these tubes continuously since then. Every range session and match they have been rotated through. My math says they have been loaded 15-20+ times a piece over the last almost 3 years. I have recently developed an issue where they will grab the chamber and will come out of the gun without a pair of pliers. Even when they were new I would maybe once a skirmish have a tube that would fight me to come out. But at the MA shoot at the end of June it got worse, and this past MA shoot last weekend it was probably 70% of the cases needed pliers. I have also had 2 split, which has never happened before. When cleaning the tubes I use simple green and water, soak them overnight, then dunk in clean water and dry. After cleaning this past weekend, I put them on a mandrel in my drill press and could feel high and low spots. I used 600 grit sandpaper and gray scotchbrite to clean them up. They are not nearly as smooth as new ones, but for the most part they slide in and out easier. That could also be because they are empty? I have not tried firing them, I will load them up and give them a try soon to see if that helped I also used a flex hone and 4-ought steel wool to clean up my chamber on my gun to see if that helped. The tubes that did fit now come in and out even easier. But the tight ones, even empty, are still nearly too tight to remove with just my fingers.

Suggestions? Not sure if the sandpaper/scotchbrite method will do anything, but curious to see what you all think. Is it time to invest in some new tubes? I have a teammate that has been seriously liking the new generation of the red tubes. I have read about sizing the rubber tubes, the case mouth rolling into the bore, etc. I'm getting sick and tired of only getting of 3 rounds a minute with a breechloader because I need to fumble with pliers!

**Joseph Plakis Jr, 00302V** · 08-03-2024

John
I have been shooting Smiths for a very long time. I started with white Nylon tubes & now use the Black tubes. The main problem with the black tubes is that they are are made out of the same material milk jugs are made of. The black, aluminum or brass tubes are made as "one size fits all Smiths". The rivets keep the hole where the cap ignites the powder from enlarging over use. Over a period of their use the tube diameter enlarges, this is why you may eventually need pliers to remove a tube or they split.
A long time ago I made a "sizing die" to size the black tubes. This works for a while but eventually the black tube is trash.
I hate to say this but, because the black tubes are made of polyethylene they don't last for ever. Using the rivets in the tubes my son and I replace the tubes every 3 to 4 years.
l have old white Nylon tubes (that before I started putting the rivets in the tubes) I made a stainless steel cup that I put in the bottom of the nylon tubes. They are over 55 years old and they are serviceable. I also have white nylon tubes that I put rivets in them (the white nylon tubes are not reduced capacity tubes and you have to use filler). They will last longer than I will. John I have had a business for many years and like every businessman I try not to sell things that last for ever. Unfortunately that is call capitalism.
The bottom line is if a Smith tube last forever you don't sell a lot of them.
If you are going to the Recruit Shoot at Springtown I will show black tube sizer to you.

Joe Plakis Jr.
Hampton Legion
00302V

**Keith Williams** · 08-03-2024

Interesting Joe, can you post pictures of the tube sizer?

Hey John, just curious...have you finely polished the chamber lately with a Dremel tool?

I believe there might be a difference in case walls from Dixie, Lodgewood, and S&S supplies...while I did not measure at the time, and now they are in a universal pile...there were some that I filed and sanded down for ease. I bought these at the end of the Chinese Flu scare...so, they may have been old stock or ship everything to fill orders as a capitalist ploy. Lol!

Definitely do a good chamber polishing and concentrate around the throat entry.

I hope this also helps, take care.

Keith A. Williams
15^th. Reg VA Vol Cav

"The most deadly thing on a battlefield is one well-aimed shot." - The White Feather - GySgt Carlos Norman Hathcock II

**Maillemaker** · 08-03-2024

I am currently using the hard black plastic tubes in my kids' Smiths, with aluminum flash hole protectors made from pop rivets. If you search the forum you'll find the link where to buy them. Much cheaper than the brass grommets that North East Trade Company sells. But, the aluminum corrodes slightly more than the brass grommets from NETCO. I don't think it makes any functional difference.

I tried the translucent red rubber tubes, and I am not a fan. They load much easier, being rubber, but the bullets do not seat square in the tube. You can cock them any old way you like. This results in inferior accuracy than with the rigid black tubes. My theory is that the black tubes hold the bullets rigidly coaxial while as I stated the rubber tubes allow the bullet to be cocked at any old orientation.

My kids loose 2-3 tubes per skirmish due to splitting.

We have had no problems with sticking in the chamber.

**John Westenberger** · 08-03-2024

Joe, tentatively I will be at the recruit shoot in August. I talked to Joe III, he said we would talk after he got back from the board meeting, presumably about the tube sizer. I'm guessing the 15-20 uses has finally worn them out to the point they may need a sizer, and/or I may need new tubes! Wish they made the indestructible white ones still, but it would be bad for business if you never had to buy tubes again!

Keith, I have used a 400 grit flex hone, followed by 4 ought steel wool, followed by a dremel tool with polishing compound. I can nearly see my reflection off of it! All of my cases came from S&S in the same batch.

Steve, I have since started buying brass rivets on ebay. Once you have one to pull measurements from, it's easy enough to find an equivalent one from China, if you can convert to metric. I like the black tubes a lot. Easy to load, easy to clean and cheap. I have no issues with accuracy with them, but I have not heard anything regarding the bullet not sitting square with the red yore tubes. Perhaps this was an older generation? A teammate (Smith sage, Mike Santarelli) just ordered 100 to try, and he really liked them a lot. He admitted the older ones were not good, but likes these to the point of ordering another couple hundred for his family.

**Tim Iannuzzi** · 08-04-2024

Now I'm curious about these red tubes. I have an original Smith and a Pietta. I use a .518 pure soft lead bullet in the original (as cast from Eras Gone mold), and .515 sized in the Pietta. I use the black tubes with brass grommets from Northeast. As I'm relatively new to skirmishing last fall, I think I've got about 10 uses on the tubes I have. No issue with removal yet and I like the ease of loading them. I guess I may want to start thinking about getting a new batch to have on hand soon. Does the bullet size differences affect the tube life, or just general wear and tear on the plastic material? Where are you all getting the red tubes from?
? Thanks.