Equivalent granulatons GOEX vs. Swiss?

[Maillemaker]

Hi all,

I currently use GOEX 3F in everything. What is the equivalent granulation in Swiss?

I see they have Swiss in 1.5F, 2F, 3F, among others.

I've got 8 pounds of GOEX left. Hoping to make it until GOEX comes back online but if I run out I'll switch to Swiss.

Steve

[John Westenberger]

I borrowed rounds for my Smith from a friend, and they used something like 25 grains Goex 3f. This was after Goex shut its doors, so I had Swiss 2f and 3f, as well as Schuetzen 2f and 3f to try. I couldn't get the Schuetzen to work at all. I tried everything from 20 to 30 grains in 1 grain increments and it would not group. The Swiss 3f was decent, I had the best results out of it with 22 grains. I think it's just too hot. So about 10% or so less than Goex 3f. I had killer results with Swiss 2f. I had exceptional results matching the Goex 3f grain for grain with the Swiss 2f. I got it even more dialed by backing it off half a grain or so, but that may just have been me getting more trigger time in. So for Swiss in my carbine:

Goex 3f=Swiss 2f
Geox 3f=Swiss 3f MINUS 10%

Of course you will have to play around with the powder charge slightly up and down for best results.

I also tried Swiss 2f and 1.5f in my Musket. 47 grains of Goex 2f was fairly equivalent in Swiss 1.5, within a grain. And the Swiss 2f was about 44 grains, so about 6% less. I never could get the Swiss to group quite the same in my musket. I still have 6 pounds of Goex 2f left, so I'm still rocking that, for now. I have intentions of trying Swiss 1.5 and 2f in my Smoothbore, since I'm down to a pound and a half of Old Eynesford 2f. I expect Swiss 2f and Old E 2f will be similar.

[Maillemaker]

John that is very interesting.

My friend, Brett Gibbons, is a scholar and practitioner of the British Pritchett/Hay/Boxer paper-patched bullet. He knows that the historical charge was 68 grains of powder. But he was not getting historically-correct results at range with his cartridges.

He switched to a courser grade of Swiss - 1.5F, and his groups tightened up.

It's almost like the Swiss is so hot you need to use courser granulations.

Thanks very much for the info!

Steve

[John Westenberger]

John that is very interesting.

My friend, Brett Gibbons, is a scholar and practitioner of the British Pritchett/Hay/Boxer paper-patched bullet. He knows that the historical charge was 68 grains of powder. But he was not getting historically-correct results at range with his cartridges.

He switched to a courser grade of Swiss - 1.5F, and his groups tightened up.

It's almost like the Swiss is so hot you need to use courser granulations.

Thanks very much for the info!

Steve

It sounds like he and I had similar results, if you assume Goex 2f to behave similarly to historical musket powder. Which, at least in my head, is the case. So his historical 68 grains of musket powder (Goex 2f-like in behavior) didn't work with Swiss 2f (What I'm assuming he tried first). Backing down to Swiss 1.5, using the same powder load of 68 grains, behaved like Goex 2f. Very interesting! It does seem like the "back down a granulation" rule is more universal than I thought. Of course, we could just be lucky and have two guns just behave like this. But with mine being a Smith Carbine and his being what I am assuming is some flavor of Enfield, it may actually be a universal rule. If only I had a chronograph and a few extra hours a day to test all of this!

[Maillemaker]

It sounds like he and I had similar results, if you assume Goex 2f to behave similarly to historical musket powder. Which, at least in my head, is the case. So his historical 68 grains of musket powder (Goex 2f-like in behavior) didn't work with Swiss 2f (What I'm assuming he tried first). Backing down to Swiss 1.5, using the same powder load of 68 grains, behaved like Goex 2f. Very interesting! It does seem like the "back down a granulation" rule is more universal than I thought. Of course, we could just be lucky and have two guns just behave like this. But with mine being a Smith Carbine and his being what I am assuming is some flavor of Enfield, it may actually be a universal rule. If only I had a chronograph and a few extra hours a day to test all of this!

Yes, I believe that is the gist of what he did, with the results as you summarize. Basically, whereas we target shooters tend to tweak our groups by charge weight, his charge weight is historically fixed. So, to get the Figures of Merit at ranges that we know were obtained historically, he is having to tweak granulation size instead. He is using a Whitacre barrel with progressive-depth rifling, which should be a good match to what was used historically. He is also manufacturing swaged versions of the bullets, so they are highly consistent in dimension and weight and match how they were generally made in Britain historically. I am manufacturing the fired clay plugs for him.

I believe his cartridges are about as historically correct as can be made today.

Steve