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Thread: OK-- Just do it.

  1. #21
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    Having participated in several and various sports, my general observation is that the more rules are implemented, the more effort some folks will exert to find ways to beat them.

    Witness the ?race guns? of the various so-called ?practical? pistol events. We won?t even get into NASCAR?s ?stock cars? or other types of racing.

    If we can?t agree on a basic simple set of sensible rules and agree like ladies and gentlemen to abide by them (with sensible exceptions granted as needed) we?ll join these other ?sports? and turn into an ?arms race? to see who can beat the rules best.

    JMHO, but don?t we have enough problems getting and keeping new members without getting into another squabble?

    Ranger Frog
    Charlie Shaeff
    1st Valley Rangers
    N-SSA # 12345

  2. #22
    Tom Arliskas is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerFrog View Post
    Having participated in several and various sports, my general observation is that the more rules are implemented, the more effort some folks will exert to find ways to beat them.

    Witness the ?race guns? of the various so-called ?practical? pistol events. We won?t even get into NASCAR?s ?stock cars? or other types of racing.

    If we can?t agree on a basic simple set of sensible rules and agree like ladies and gentlemen to abide by them (with sensible exceptions granted as needed) we?ll join these other ?sports? and turn into an ?arms race? to see who can beat the rules best.

    JMHO, but don?t we have enough problems getting and keeping new members without getting into another squabble?

    Ranger Frog
    You and I do not want a squabble on anything. Squabbles just makes folks mad. Opinions fly like grape shot all over the place with no one gaining an inch of ground. That has happened in the past. Even when our Board, who are elected with running the organization makes a claim or new rule-- you have people just throwing up their hands and stating they know better on what the Board should have done. All I see needed is a clarification-- not a Rules Change. Something we can all agree on and not disregard our Team Uniforms. I want a clarification on hot weather, rain or mud and what we need to wear on those days-- NOT ALL THE TIME Just because. Some are already cringing at the word UNIFORM in the N-SSA and that is OK. We have already has those conversations and done. What might happen is a draw down on uniforms worn during team competition. A whatever I feel like wearing moment. The Board will state-- "You all have your Official Uniform to be worn while skirmishing in your By-Laws passed by Committee and Inspection upon joining" I say, if you want to change something-- under the Rules you have a right to submit a change-- that is how it is done -- Our older members need something besides light weight uniforms when shooting. They also need water, shade, a ride, and a slap on the back and a hand shake. We must take into consideration the age and health of our members. Just an Official clarification-- If the Rules state the Skirmish Director can call a Rules change on uniforms for weather-- fine-- Been there and done that-- but for age and health-- clarify that too! We are all adults and understand I HOPE!

  3. #23
    Tom Arliskas is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike McDaniel View Post
    Watertight boots are a must. I would never even consider bashing a fellow Skirmisher for wearing them. There were times I wore sandals. Not for the heat, for the drainage.
    SANDALS! Were they Civil War authentic? You make my point. You needed sandals for drainage in water. GREAT! But you were out of uniform! Someone could say that to you and you would get mad. To quell that response a clarification is needed for inclement weather and stated as such-- whatever the language-- that if needed do it!

  4. #24
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    Here's that newbie throwing some more of that 'opinion' around

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Arliskas View Post
    You and I do not want a squabble on anything. Squabbles just makes folks mad. Opinions fly like grape shot all over the place ... . <<--== Now, that is funny!!


    What might happen is a draw down on uniforms worn during team competition. SNIP/ The Board will state-- "You all have your Official Uniform to be worn while skirmishing in your By-Laws passed by Committee and Inspection upon joining" I say, if you want to change something-- under the Rules you have a right to submit a change-- that is how it is done -- Our older members need something besides light weight uniforms when shooting.
    I'm confident that there can be a reasonable lightweight summer uniform that can be agreed upon that does preserve the historical part of the N-SSA; otherwise, just change the organization name to Musket Shooting Group. As hokey as it may seem, having uniforms does provide for unit cohesion which in turn leads to higher morale thus participation. Just my 2?.

    I'll go out on a limb here (visions of a racoon balancing 20' up with a pack of hounds baying below comes to mind.) My recommendation is as follows:

    • Hat or kepi
    • Cotton print long sleeve shirt. Sleeves rolled up as needed for heat reduction or down for sunburn protection.
    • wetted bandana on the neck for cooling
    • Blue or gray cotton pants.
    • Suspenders
    • Black or brown shoes.
    • Optional: canteen with water or hydration drink.


    Each team will submit to national organization a list of their uniform specifications with a pix emailed to them and national gives thumbs up/down on this uniform. Since done on the team level, there is going to be ample opportunity for individuals to get their desires voiced. And with everyone now having a smartphone, then everyone can get sent a pix of their unit's required uniform. Then, in lieu of multiple rules, it could be simplified to "The Match leaders and/or senior N-SSA officer can call for teams to wear previously approved lightweight summer uniforms during deemed periods of heat stress." Simple, quick, responsive, and we hold to having a uniform.

    Additionally, there can be 'command drink' where every shooter has to hydrate x oz/ml prior to going on the firing line as a safety measure. If the match leaders deem it sufficiently heat stressful for light weight gear, then we need to address dehydration on the firing line. Seen a lot of men come through ER that were 'doing fine' up to the point that they drop like a rock.

  5. #25
    Tom Arliskas is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Ganz View Post
    I'm confident that there can be a reasonable lightweight summer uniform that can be agreed upon that does preserve the historical part of the N-SSA; otherwise, just change the organization name to Musket Shooting Group. As hokey as it may seem, having uniforms does provide for unit cohesion which in turn leads to higher morale thus participation. Just my 2?.

    I'll go out on a limb here (visions of a racoon balancing 20' up with a pack of hounds baying below comes to mind.) My recommendation is as follows:

    • Hat or kepi
    • Cotton print long sleeve shirt. Sleeves rolled up as needed for heat reduction or down for sunburn protection.
    • wetted bandana on the neck for cooling
    • Blue or gray cotton pants.
    • Suspenders
    • Black or brown shoes.
    • Optional: canteen with water or hydration drink.


    Each team will submit to national organization a list of their uniform specifications with a pix emailed to them and national gives thumbs up/down on this uniform. Since done on the team level, there is going to be ample opportunity for individuals to get their desires voiced. And with everyone now having a smartphone, then everyone can get sent a pix of their unit's required uniform. Then, in lieu of multiple rules, it could be simplified to "The Match leaders and/or senior N-SSA officer can call for teams to wear previously approved lightweight summer uniforms during deemed periods of heat stress." Simple, quick, responsive, and we hold to having a uniform.

    Additionally, there can be 'command drink' where every shooter has to hydrate x oz/ml prior to going on the firing line as a safety measure. If the match leaders deem it sufficiently heat stressful for light weight gear, then we need to address dehydration on the firing line. Seen a lot of men come through ER that were 'doing fine' up to the point that they drop like a rock.
    Awesome-- they are talking about it at the Board Meeting. A suggestion to disregard the uniform when the temperature reaches a certain temperature. I say no and let the Skirmish Director decide not a thermometer. Thank you for your suggestion. Tom

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Arliskas View Post
    Awesome-- they are talking about it at the Board Meeting. A suggestion to disregard the uniform when the temperature reaches a certain temperature. I say no and let the Skirmish Director decide not a thermometer. Thank you for your suggestion. Tom
    This is similar to the way we've done it in the mid-atlantic. Regional Commander makes the call for relaxed uniforms. Shirts and hats, pants are optional. I won't get into shoes, it's up to the national board to clarify that. I bring boots to shoot in regardless of weather. So as a cavalry unit, when region commander sends word out that we're doing altered uniforms, I wear the cavalry stetson style hat (Several of our guys wear straw, especially in the heat!), white uniform shirt, shorts, and boots. For regular uniforms, I just add pants. The uniform shirts are really quite light, we don't wear jackets unless it gets cold, which is only really the fall national, or mornings for our September shoot. I'm fairly comfortable up to the low-mid 80's in full uniform (Mind you I'm only 23!), anything past that is pushing it, especially when you factor in the humidity. This is just what we have done in the mid-atlantic, and it's made everyone fairly comfortable, and we haven't had anyone go down to heat in the few short years I've been a member (knocking on wood, furiously!).
    Last edited by John Westenberger; 02-06-2023 at 12:09 PM.
    John Westenberger
    Co. B. 1st PA Cav.

  7. #27
    Muley Gil is offline
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    A little birdie told me this tidbit from the Board:

    No summer uniform. Official uniform and relaxed uniform if weather requires it. Same as it?s always been.
    Gil Davis Tercenio
    # 3020V
    34th Battalion, Virginia Cavalry
    Great, great grandson of Cpl Elijah S Davis, Co I, 6th Alabama Inf CSA

  8. #28
    Tom Arliskas is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Gaul View Post
    I switched teams from a Union Infantry unit to a Union Marine unit. I just dropped $205 dollars on a new frock coat with a new Kepi to be ordered and paid for later. I have been a member in the NSSA for 43 continuous years. My issue is the shoes, and the range at 100 yards. For me brogans are too slippery and the "swamp" at 100 yards at Fort Shenandoah are difficult most times of the year. I just wear brown rubber boots rain or shine when skirmishing at the Fort in Winchester. After one or two skirmishes, the new team gives it members a choice to either time and safety or hang targets. I am more than happy to time and safety and let the younger members walk and deal with the swamp at 100 yards. That is where I am at in my journey in the NSSA.

    Harry in Pa.
    Forney's
    03626v
    Exactly-- and I know if you could you would wear those Brogans on the Range. Time and the fear of falling is real. I too today will hold on to the hand rail when walking up and down stairs anywhere I go. I also look down when I walk. Never used to when I was a kid. I still go out to 100 because I can and I will wear my Brogans still. But if it gets muddy I will put on my Wellingtons. I have been a CW uniform researcher and enthusiast all my life. Wrote a Book on CS Uniforms and it is still selling. I love authenticity. I do understand age and health comes first. When I can I will get all dolled up with my finest expensive CW uniforms. I look awesome! Not when it is 98 degrees outside, in the sun, and 87% humidity, raining, or just uncomfortable that day. NOPE! That said--- our N-SSA is special and we need to foster and protect our Heritage. The wearing of CW uniforms was and is a big part of that History and always has. Prove me wrong-- You cannot. Tom

  9. #29
    Tom Arliskas is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
    Tom, I think we have enough rules and enough latitude to handle the weather. Here's where I think you have gotten to...
    Now hold on there partner-- No one is beating a dead horse here. The question of weather and uniforms worn or not worn is in front of the Board or was this last weekend. The proposal was based on a certain temperature reached that uniforms for that day or weekend could be considered. Right now we have the Skirmish Director and Team input to decide at local skirmishes. I do not believe a temp or heat index or humidity index is the way to go. If you say 90 degrees has to be reached, it can be just as hot at 87 or 89 degrees or humid. We must also consider, to evaluate the health of certain individual members. Some cannot take the heat at all-- or cannot walk far-- but can still compete. What can we do for them to make them comfortable when shooting. Every team has a CLASS A Uniform designated in their Team By-Laws, the uniform you stood inspection with. That uniform should be worn as often as it can. FACT! But, when people get old or develop issues we can with empathy allow them to still wear a uniform, but one they can compete in and not fall over. If you want some more "DEAD HORSES"-- or "SICK PEOPLE" on the Range it might happen and has in the past. I am just saying think about it-- We are all handsome and very smart men and women who can come up with a solution that is acceptable to all, and not forsake authenticity and our CW Heritage and History going back to 1949. Tom

  10. #30
    Tom Arliskas is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal View Post
    I must admit, I do not like wearing uniforms. I do it because I have to, certainly not because I enjoy playing dress up. I am in the N-SSA for the guns. That is where my interest lies. I enjoy collecting and shooting Civil War era firearms, primarily the carbines. To me, the uniform is a necessary evil, and I must admit, I look forward to shooting in the hotter months where the uniform gets waived due to the temperature. It's not the wool that I dislike. It's just that the style of clothes is uncomfortable to me. I'm a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy. Anything else is uncomfortable to me.&lt;br&gt;<br>
    &lt;br&gt;<br>
    Now, I'm sure that has probably offended some. That was not my intention. It is just that everyone is different, and have different interests. I have no beef with those who like to wear their uniforms. we have several who wear them anyway, even when waived due to temperature. I don't think less of them. They are enjoying what they enjoy about the N-SSA. Nothing wrong with that.
    &lt;br&gt;<br>
    &lt;br&gt;<br>
    Exactly! I can remember going back 50 some years and my first N-SSA Team how we had people want to join but did not like wearing a uniform or could not afford the one we chose for the team. We would help those youngsters, me too, get a uniform or lend them pieces of ours to shoot. Same with our Boy Scout Unit, Softball team, our Gym Class, Bowling and other activities, My Catholic School, they all wanted me to buy and wear a uniform or a certain color clothing. FACT. I am in the N-SSA too for the Guns! I am writing a book about it right now. Your honesty is right on. Yes some on my team hate the uniform to be worn. At local events they come out in what looks CW, but is not even close accept for the hat or kepi. The N-SSA in their By-Laws and Rules says you have to wear a uniform when competing. That is the Rule! And you know that! We have folks who love CW History and Uniforms and others not so much, But we all have to follow the Rules. My whole point in this is the consideration of those who because of health issues or age need some TLC when shooting. That is all I am asking for. Myself when I go practice, the only CW thing I wear is an old authentic straw hat or black Hardee Hat. I never minded wearing my finest wool uniform at events when I could. If it was to hot or &lt;br&gt;<br>
    raining, off it went. When I was young I could take the heat and the cold and not care. Today, I cannot and get very uncomfortable and when back at the Camp strip down to shorts and a T shirt. FACT. Just think about it- That is me with Audie Murphy-- Tom
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    Last edited by Tom Arliskas; 02-03-2023 at 09:31 AM.

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