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Thread: Paper Cartridges for Revolvers

  1. #1
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    Paper Cartridges for Revolvers

    As a newbie, I am trying to mix what I already "know" (fact or fallacy) about Civil War weapons and materiel with the rules for competition in N-SSA. :lol: What I would like to ask about is the paper cartridges that were used in Colt, Remington, and other C&B revolvers and their legality and suitability for use in N-SSA. I found the revolvers, including my specific Remington repro, in the Information section, but I can't find anything about loading regulations. Can somebody point me in the right direction? TIA!

    RangerFrog
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    Charlie Shaeff
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    N-SSA # 12345

  2. #2
    Lou Lou Lou is offline
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    All the rules and regulations for skirmishing are amailable on-line.
    No, you cant use paper cartridges for revolver.
    Lou Lou Lou Ruggiero
    Tammany Regt-42nd NYVI

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    Thanks, Lou Lou Lou. I just went back and downloaded the rules from this website. I didn't see mention of paper cartridges in either the revolver section or the ammunition section, so should I go under the principle that anything not specifically enumerated as permitted is prohibited? Thanks again.

    RangerFrog
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    Charlie Shaeff
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    I just went through the rules and the IG workbook, and I couldn't find an answer to this question either. Lou, could you post a link to support your contention that paper cartriges are illegal? the only reference I can find is in relation to muzzle loading firearms. Which, technically, revolvers aren't.

    SECTION 17: SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
    17.5 CARTRIDGES


    c. The use of combustible cartridges in muzzleloading arms is prohibited.

    I have seen this question come up many times in the past.

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    Whether or not a cap & ball revolver is a muzzleloading firearm depends on where you live. In New York State it is a muzzleloader. In 1978 a member of the Long Island Gun Collectors was arrested for possession of a C & B revolver. I was an expert witness for the defense, also Larry Wilson the author, and Craddock Goins, Curator of Arms at the Smithsonian and we presented a case good enough that the court declared that C & B revolvers whether original or replica were muzzleloading weapons and not required to be on a pistol license. If you shoot the pistol you are then stepping into muddy water, but just possession of it is legal without a license. That was 1978 and since then there may be local regulations I know nothing about, but as far as the state goes I think that determination from 1978 still holds.

    Bob F.

  6. #6
    matt's Avatar
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    you may use combustible paper cartridges in a c&b revolver in n-ssa competion. that is under the definition of a prepared charge. the only time you cannot use them is in a muzzleloading weapon, such as a musket, smoothbore or carbine that doesnt load from the breech end. since you are loading a cylider on the c&b revolver
    not the barrel it is fine. if you were to shoot a single shot pistol that loaded from the muzzel(not allowed) then you could not use combustible cartridges. i have had good luck using cigarette papers rolled on a dowel and cut to the correct length then on one end close with a square of hair curler paper and a round ball glued to the top of the whole thing. it will withstand moderate handling but you may see if you need to break the hair paper right before loading on your gun. on mine the cap is strong enough to ignite the charge as long as i clean the reaming paper from the last charge. try it and see what works for you.
    matt
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    Thanks to all who responded. With the disparity of answers, I guess my next move is to contact the SAC and ask for an official ruling?? :?: I'd hate to go to my first revolver match fat, dumb, and happy with a load of laboriously prepared combustible cartridges and be shown the way to the gate! :roll:

    Matt, have you competed at Ft Shenandoah with combustibles as described, and if yes, what bullet/ball did you end up using? I assume the standard roundball which is shaved as it is run home would not seat at all with a layer of even cigarette paper around it. :?:

    I didn't mean to kick over a hornet's nest, but obviously this seems to be a grey area (and not just Confederate grey! :lol: )

    RangerFrog
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    Charlie Shaeff
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    N-SSA # 12345

  8. #8
    matt's Avatar
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    ranger,
    i have used combustible cartridges in comp at ft shenadoah during the nationals even having the weapon checked for trigger pull and im guessing ig looking at the catridges nothing was said weapon passed to bad my shooting was terrible.i use an uberti 1858 rem with 17 grains 3f with filler and topped by a .454 rb. dont have a 50 yd load as the last time i shot 50 ydmy score was a big fat zero. i did manage to hit the paper so i turned the target in. i enjoy the less mess on the line with the combustible cartridges
    over a pre-poured charge then dumping the filler and finally the ball.
    i do believe that the gentleman who said no to them was confused about front stuffers where paper cartridges are no longer allowed at all whether they are combustible or not. that was changed not too long ago where the combustible were never allowed and regular paper was supposed to be inspected. now a front stuffer has to be cardboard or plastic and closed compeletly on one end.
    hope this helps
    matt
    winslows battery 9975

  9. #9
    matt's Avatar
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    bob,
    as per the nys penal law section 265 a cap and ball revolver is an antique until you have all the componets to make it fire than any gun falls under the laws for a weapon. now under the definitions of the penal law if it is a caplock flintlock matchlock or does not have commercially made ammo for it availible or made prior to 1898 it is an antique again until you can make it fire. in nys if you take a c&b pistol not just revolver to a range they will ask you for a pistol permit and the weapon has to be on you permit. so it is not a muzzle loader it is an antique. muzzleloader is only defined in dec regs for hunting.
    matt
    winslows battery 9975

  10. #10
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    Matt is most correct about NY State.

    In New York State if you are in possession of the components to fire a percussion, or flint lock hand gun, the arm must be registered on a valid NYS Pistol Permit.

    I know a person who actually has a Flint Lock pistol registered on a NYS Pistol Permit. I have seen the permit and it reads as follows:

    "Tower - Flint Lock - .69 cal."

    JDH
    44th NY

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