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Thread: Scheutzen Powder

  1. #1
    Jim Leinicke 7368V is offline
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    Scheutzen Powder

    With the demise of Goex, we are looking about for alternative loads for skirmish guns. Swiss clearly works, and I am getting as good or better using Swiss behind my .575 wadcutter minies. But what about Scheutzen? I routinely use that stuff in my round ball rifles and it is as good or better than anything else. But in a minie rifle I have had no luck at all with it. Does anyone have any advice on the use of Scheutzen in their rifle-musket? I am using a Hoyt barrel and a Rapine wadcutter minie and can't get on the paper.
    Jim Leinicke, 7369V
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  2. #2
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    Hi Jim,

    A lot of folks swear by Schuetzen, especially for BP cartridges.

    Some years ago I purchased the Moose Wilkinson bullet and was trying to do load workups for it. Back Creek was out of Goex at the time, as I recall, so I bought Schuetzen powder instead.

    I almost gave up on the Moose Wilkinson bullet because after about 3 shots the loading got very crunchy due to fouling. The Moose Wilkinson has very limited lube carrying capability.

    Then I got more Goex. Suddenly I could shoot the Moose Wilkinson pretty much indefinitely.

    So, my limited use of Schuetzen lead me to believe it was a dirtier powder than Goex.

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

  3. #3
    Jim Leinicke 7368V is offline
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    Scheutzen

    I find Scheutzen to be excellent in any application where there is relatively high breech pressure. This includes most blackpowder cartridges and patched round ball rifles. In our experience, it is tops in patched ball guns, producing tight groups and soft fouling. But trying it in my skirmish rifle it was worthless and wouldn't put a bullet on paper. When I switch to Swiss the rifle shoots great. I have yet to find anyone who likes Scheutzen in a smoothbore or minie rifle, both firearms with low breech pressures.

  4. #4
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    What Steve said...

    "So, my limited use of Schuetzen lead me to believe it was a dirtier powder than Goex."

  5. #5
    PoorJack is offline
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    Well, Schuetzen supports our work with youth in muzzleloading. We've done load development that conforms to the policy of the youth organizations we work with and here's the groups we're getting with 3f Schuetzen. Group was shot offhand at 50yd with a total of 10 shots. Each grid square is 1in so other than the flyer on the right, offhand group size is a tad over 2in offhand. If you aren't getting good groups, you might want to experiment a bit. Load was RCBS Hogdon sized 580, 45g 3f Schuetzen, beeswax/lard lube, Schuetzen caps. Gun was a Zoli Zouave.

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    Last edited by PoorJack; 11-30-2021 at 01:50 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Eggman is offline Banned
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    I'm firmly in the camp of lotsa lotsa lube ALL THE TIME in our black powder guns. ALL black powder residue is "crunchy." You must have lube to keep it soft and keep firing. In my view firing any type of bullet without lube is a walk down the primrose path; and advising folks to use a bullet (from a very expensive mold) you cannot lube to me is asking a person to take an incredible leap of faith.

  7. #7
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    Schuetzen Powder

    From what I've read, it's definitely more picky on lube than Goex. Especially the 2f, the 3f seems to be very comparable to Goex 3f. The older reviews (pre 2011 or so, yes, that's old to me!) are very critical, and say it's very, very dirty. The newer reviews are generally more positive. I know a lot of people LOVE it in smoothies, but there isn't much out there on Muskets or Carbines, since we've always had Goex. However...

    I've used it quite a bit, both in testing, practice, and skirmish. My Smith doesn't notice the difference between Goex and Schuetzen, at all. My Zouave also doesn't mind it. It still groups about the same, and uses the same powder loads (They're almost identical power-wise). I use 2f in both my Smith (Moose Smith-Maynard, its like 400ish grains?), and my Zouave (Moose Wad, it's 315 grains). I will say, the Zouave is a little dirtier, not enough to notice in a single event, but through the course of several, you'll want to brush it out, it does get tight. But even with Goex, I was never a "Just set the rammer on the bullet and let it drop!" guy. It was always tight.

    As with all powders, your results may vary. It seems Schuetzen, it's especially true.
    John Westenberger
    Co. B. 1st PA Cav.

  8. #8
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    and advising folks to use a bullet (from a very expensive mold) you cannot lube to me is asking a person to take an incredible leap of faith.
    It's true that a lot of lube can make up for a lot of sins. Hence the RCBS Hodgdon bullet that can carry a pound of lube per shot!

    But the benefits of the Moose Wilkinson are undeniable for me. It's a double-cavity mold, so you can double your production rate while casting. It also pours easily and extremely consistently with a bottom-pour pot. I have given up on trying bottom pour for any hollow-cavity bullet and believe you pretty much have to ladle-pour them to get consistent weights out of your batch. I hate ladle-pouring because it's slow, messy, and you churn the melt so much you generate a ton of dross which is wasted lead since I don't try and reclaim it*. Then, of course, the bullet shoots wonderfully in my Whitcare P53 barrel and my Hoyt Richmond Carbine barrel. So, for me, the Moose Wilkinson is the best muzzle loading bullet I have yet to come across.

    Steve


    *You can reclaim dross by heating it at very high temperatures - high enough to break the lead/oxygen bonds, in the presence of charcoal (carbon), which more readily bonds to the free oxygen creating CO and CO2 and leaving behind the lead. This is more hassle to me than it's worth.
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

  9. #9
    Jim Leinicke 7368V is offline
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    Scheutzen

    Gentlemen, I really appreciate your responses on this. It would appear that I need to take out the old Mississippi Rifle and give Scheutzen 3fg another go, perhaps with a heavier charge. The advice on lube is also very helpful.
    Jim Leinicke, 7368v

  10. #10
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    Steve,

    I just 'flux' my pot with a small piece of beeswax and stir vigorously, and the vast majority of the 'dross' mixes (Maybe "Reduces" is the correct word?) back in. I have tried the heavy layer of charcoal (Burnt sawdust) on top of my smelting pot to try to get powdered lead from my bullet trap to melt back but had little success. I believe the powdered lead from my trap is likely lead oxide and not just lead. I do use the sawdust as a flux when smelting and it works for dross but not for what I believe is lead oxide powder.

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