Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: Scheutzen Powder

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Huntsville
    Posts
    3,733
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    Hi Hal,

    It is my opinion that fluxing pure lead achieves no real purpose. When lead is exposed to the air, it, like most metals, oxidizes due to binding with the oxygen in the air. Heat accelerates this process. So molten lead will readily oxidize with the exposed surface of the melt being exposed to air.

    Placing a barrier on top of the melt (a layer of charcoal, or sawdust (which quickly turns into charcoal), or anything else which prevents the lead from being exposed to the air, will help reduce oxidation. I've actually been meaning to make a little "lid" to set on top of my Lee-420 melt surface (steel will float on the lead) with a notch to clear the valve stem. Obviously this will not work if ladle pouring. Even "fluxing" with beeswax will leave an oily film for some seconds which can appear to leave a nice shiny melt surface. But this burns away in a minute or so and now in addition to lead oxide you have burned organic material floating on top of your melt.

    I believe it is in the US Ordnance manuals where they describe how to reclaim dross. Basically you heat it in a furnace with charcoal to very high temperatures (probably glowing - way higher than casting temperatures). When heated to this temperature, the oxygen/lead bond is broken and the oxygen is free to fly away. By having carbon in the mix, the free oxygen would rather bond with the carbon than the lead, making CO and CO2, leaving pure lead behind.

    I don't think the chemical reaction to reduce lead oxide back to lead can be achieved at melting temperatures.

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Huntsville
    Posts
    3,733
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    OK Hal, I'm going to have to eat some crow.

    Tonight, I had a good pile of dross on top of my pot, so I fluxed in some beeswax. Did it three times. Put 3 good-sized chunks in each time (about half the size of my thumb). In fact, the amount of dross seems to have been reduced by 2/3rds afterwards.

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SE Georgia
    Posts
    636
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    Glad it worked for you. I don't have to use very much, but I do stir the everloving heck out out of it until there is actually a whirlpool going. That seems to reduce most of the dross back into the melt pretty well for me. There is usually still a little stuff to scoop off the surface, but it is usually just fine dust, not stuff that looks like silver oatmeal.
    Last edited by Hal; 12-06-2021 at 12:30 PM.

  4. #14
    rchristopher is offline
    Team:
    Durrell's Independent Battery
    Member
    08425
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    17
    Region:
    Middle Atlantic - New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Leinicke 7368V View Post
    With the demise of Goex, we are looking about for alternative loads for skirmish guns. Swiss clearly works, and I am getting as good or better using Swiss behind my .575 wadcutter minies. But what about Scheutzen? I routinely use that stuff in my round ball rifles and it is as good or better than anything else. But in a minie rifle I have had no luck at all with it. Does anyone have any advice on the use of Scheutzen in their rifle-musket? I am using a Hoyt barrel and a Rapine wadcutter minie and can't get on the paper.
    Jim Leinicke, 7369V
    .
    You're not alone. I too, was forced into using Schuetzen with GOEX out of production and the difference was very noticeable. I was getting tight groups with 40g FFF GOEX with my Whitacre barrel on my '63 Springfield. I took it to the range yesterday using Schuetzen for the time (40g FFF) and could barely hit the paper! Flyers all over the place! I wont be using it again in my '63. Too erratic. I'm going to give Swiss a try next.

  5. #15
    rchristopher is offline
    Team:
    Durrell's Independent Battery
    Member
    08425
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    17
    Region:
    Middle Atlantic - New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by PoorJack View Post
    Well, Schuetzen supports our work with youth in muzzleloading. We've done load development that conforms to the policy of the youth organizations we work with and here's the groups we're getting with 3f Schuetzen. Group was shot offhand at 50yd with a total of 10 shots. Each grid square is 1in so other than the flyer on the right, offhand group size is a tad over 2in offhand. If you aren't getting good groups, you might want to experiment a bit. Load was RCBS Hogdon sized 580, 45g 3f Schuetzen, beeswax/lard lube, Schuetzen caps. Gun was a Zoli Zouave.

    Attachment 11630
    That's a great group. And experimenting is worth a try. I have a Whitacre barrel on my '63 and I think the Zouave's have a faster rate of twist (also something to consider). I was shooting a RCBS Hodgdon 1.5 /1000 under with 45g and it was so erratic after 10 shots I quit trying. Made the paper 3 times. Like I was saying before, My GOEX yielded tight groups with same mini? and grains. I'll tweak my charges and mini? style and see if that helps.

  6. #16
    tackdriver is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    97
    Region:
    Visitor
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal View Post
    What Steve said...

    "So, my limited use of Schuetzen lead me to believe it was a dirtier powder than Goex."
    Yup. I have the same experience. Even my ramroad becomes dirtier than it did with Goex.... I guess it's the type of wood the use to make the charcoal??

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Huntsville
    Posts
    3,733
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    Type of wood makes a difference in the end product, but I suspect the cooking mechanism also makes a difference. While you can make charcoal with rather crude setups, I suspect that good, consistent powder is made with a fairly controlled cook in terms of temperature and time.

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

Similar Threads

  1. new powder to me
    By toot in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-02-2018, 12:34 PM
  2. Lyman #55 powder measure vs. Classic Black Powder measure?
    By Maillemaker in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-28-2013, 05:51 PM
  3. Gns of powder for .36 cal
    By relichunter in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-21-2010, 09:04 PM
  4. Gns of powder for .36 cal
    By relichunter in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-15-2010, 06:09 PM
  5. keep your powder dry
    By OLD CHIEF in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-19-2010, 06:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •