Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 34 of 34

Thread: Questions

  1. #31
    bobanderson is offline
    Team:
    1st Michigan Infantry
    Member
    12291
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Howell, MI
    Posts
    831
    Region:
    Northwest Territory - Michigan, Ohio and Indiana
    I think Dr. Franklin Mann used a box filled with oiled sawdust to catch bullets in The Bullet's Flight. It caught them without deforming them.
    Bob Anderson
    Ordnance Sergeant
    Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
    Small Arms Committee

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
    - John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Huntsville
    Posts
    3,733
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    I made a "bullet bucket" using a plastic 5 gallon bucket with lid, filled with chipped rubber mulch. I put a steel gong in the bottom to keep the bottom of the bucket from getting knocked out. After you shoot a few bullets, it kind of bores a tunnel through the mulch, but still works to stop them for recycling the lead. But many are relatively intact.

    I originally tried sand, and it works great, but the bucket is very heavy, and when you shoot a hole in the plastic lid, the sand runs out. Maybe wet sand would be less prone to running out. But it would be heavier. Weight was a concern for me because I use a public range and have to tote my bullet bucket.

    Hard to believe it was 8 years ago when I wrote this up:

    http://4thla.weebly.com/bullet-bucket.html

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
    Commander
    4th Louisiana Delta Rifles
    NRA Certified Muzzleloading Instructor

  3. #33
    Kevin Tinny is offline
    Team:
    Tammany Regiment, 42nd New York
    Member
    13667
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    573
    Region:
    New England - New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and Massachusetts
    Hello:

    I have used Dr. Mann's recovery method with muzzle loaded cast pure and 30:1 alloy bullets having muzzle velocities around 1200-1300fps. The secret is to use the slightly larger grained sawmill, not finer grained table saw blade sawdust. I want to recall Mann saying the same thing.

    LIGHTLY oiled sawdust with re-refined 30 wgt motor oil and completely mixed in a child's play pool using 30 wgt worked perfectly. Lots cheaper than ordinary motor oil. The two boxes were each seven feet long, pkywoid lid, and 14" square inside with a connecting joint if more penetration arose. The boxes had cardboard sawdust retaining panels on both ends. If cross section more than 14", the pressure of the oiled sawdust would push out the cardboard.

    Bullets were recovered AFTER EACH SHOT to prevent contact. Finding bullets was with hand searching at the guessed penetration area time and was quite time consuming. They were barely abraded on the meplat and could be resued and would shoot into the same 100 yd group!

    I found this was the fastest and most revealing way to know the bullet:
    Was not gas cutting, engraved the same length up the sides, the nose was not setback during upset and the base edge was retained with no land "drag-back". All had minute, but clear powder granule imprints in the soft lead base. It required at least 30:1, lead:tin alloy to prevent nose collapse and rumpling to one side at 1250fps. Pure lead BALLS, at up to 2250 fps simply smashed into the cardboard and sawdust and were distorted into round backed, flat faced, double diameter pieces. Scary.

    To save time, I fired through an OEHLER chrono placed carefully in line with the axis of the box. The chrono NEEDED a 6" round bladlst shield PRECISELY aligned, 2 feet in front of the first screen to prevent the pressure wave triggering the first screen.

    Pure lead bullet noses would deform and be unevenly pushed slightly off-axis if velocities were around 1400 fps. Once in a while a bullet would move oddly through the sawdust and skid inside against the plywood wall. None penetrated a full seven feet unless the charge produced over 1500 fps.

    I shot, with permission at an outdoor range 30 miles away, WA-KE-DE, in Bristol, IN, with the boxes on top of a picnic bench. One day decided to put them in my South Bend, IN garage for a quick test of a new bullet and fired from down the driveway. Neighbors knew I was strange, but safe and gave their permission and assured me they would not call the police. The good old 1975 days.

    Used a 40 caliber 30:1 alloy paper patched bullet and a heavy 3Fg GOI BP charge to see if a higher velocity might allow form retention and bullet length to stop yaw at 200. Bullet was tipping on paper tgt cards at 200. First shot fine and recovered. Decided to double bump the next one with a solid brass rod to see if penetration more. Shot through entire 14 FEET of oiled sawfust and into door of refrigerator at back of garage! Beer frame!

    Was always careful to align bore axis with axis of boxes much like chrono screen sensitivity corridor and had no bullets skip out top or run along underside of plywood top cover. Still, I imagine it can happen so please watch your backstop and any refrig's!

    General Hatcher tested recovery media and penetration and wrote in HATCHER'S NOTEBOOK that wet sand provided the shortest recovery depth, way less than anything else. He did not comment on distortion or bullet condition, but I imagine they were jacketed.

    So oiled sawmill sawdust works, but is a laborious and time consuming process.

    My bullets were cast and swaged in custom dies, even the balls. Swaging matters for uniformity.

    Frankly, I think that all we will learn from a reasonably conducted test of original minie's using a close approximation of powder is that man-sized target hits at 300 are maybe 50%. Sure, they fly further, but the average soldier with 300 yards of interval, being shot at by tired, excited, scared troops with weather and distance issues was safe if he was BEING aimed at, ricochets included. Just my respectful 2 cents.

    Thanks,
    Kevin Tinny
    Last edited by Kevin Tinny; 09-10-2020 at 10:25 AM.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    NWT area
    Posts
    937
    Region:
    Northwest Territory - Michigan, Ohio and Indiana

    Acurracy is a known

    We are only after the 2 unknowns. Accuracy is a known and is given in many period military accounts. Lots of good information has been given by many in this thread. Thanks .... How about a combo, oily sand? Can' t hurt to try it.
    BTW: Steve / Kevin ... Great article and information.
    Last edited by Bruce Cobb 1723V; 09-10-2020 at 12:22 PM.
    N-SSA Member since 1974

Similar Threads

  1. Two 44-40 Questions
    By WBR10654 in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-24-2015, 08:32 AM
  2. Questions and more questions... I know, I know....
    By tackdriver in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-03-2012, 05:17 PM
  3. Ballard questions
    By jmiller in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-08-2012, 08:37 AM
  4. 1855 QUESTIONS
    By remington1858 in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-29-2010, 11:20 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •