Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: A question of lead

  1. #1
    Lt Rabbit is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    6
    Region:
    Visitor

    A question of lead

    Hello Forum,
    I am wondering if you guys use pure lead or a mix, like 20-1 for bullets for the Smith carbine?
    Thanks,
    Rabbit

  2. #2
    MR. GADGET's Avatar
    MR. GADGET is offline Moderator
    Team:
    Rowan Artillery
    Member
    11873V
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    1,518
    Region:
    Tidewater - Virginia and North Carolina
    It is really up to what you push it with and what your gun likes.
    I have shot hard lead and also soft.

    Rule of thumb for me is more powder equal harder lead.
    Also look at the barrel, factory rifled or lined barrel.
    Just try what you got see if it likes it. Or what ever lead is cheaper to find easy.

    Just remember newer wheel weights are not all lead. Lots of stuff mixed in or even all zinc.
    MR. GADGET
    NRA LIFE BENEFACTOR MEMBER
    Rowan Artillery
    N-SSA National Provost Guard

    Just remember!
    When a pot needs stirring, someone needs to do it...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SE Georgia
    Posts
    636
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    When it comes to wheel weights, you have to sort them before smelting. Yes, some are zinc. Some are steel. Some are even plastic and aluminum. The "Lead" ones are actually a mix of lead, arsenic and antimony, and probably a bunch of other trace elements. The arsenic and antimony, especially the antimony, do a good job of hardening the lead, especially if you quench them in water when dumping the mold. BUT....you don't need that for black powder.

    For Smith, I use 50/50 pure lead and wheel weights. I have a lot of wheel weight ingots and 2-3 buckets of wheel weights yet to be smelted, so I find them handy for making carbine bullets a little harder and also don't use as much pure lead which costs more than wheel weights.

  4. #4
    Carolina Reb is offline
    Team:
    2nd South Carolina, Co I, Palmetto Guard
    Member
    5794V
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    364
    Region:
    Carolina - North Carolina and South Carolina
    Some wheel weights these days have a plastic coating that really stinks when you throw them in the pot. If you are doing a wheel weight melt, it goes better if you are outside.

  5. #5
    bobanderson is offline
    Team:
    1st Michigan Infantry
    Member
    12291
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Howell, MI
    Posts
    831
    Region:
    Northwest Territory - Michigan, Ohio and Indiana
    For ease of use, I use pure lead in the muzzleloaders and an alloy of 3 parts pure lead to one part wheel weights for any breechloaders.
    Mr. Veral Smith from LBT taught me years ago that there are (or rather were) only about 3 manufacturers of wheel weights in the country, one of which was almost exclusive to Sears Tire Centers. This meant that the metal was VERY consistent when smelted down and cast into ingots in large lots. I smelt them in 100 lb lots to clean out the odd alloys and mounting clips, flux them with beeswax and pour them into about 2.5 lb ingots for use when it's time to cast. I smelt, clean and flux pure lead into the same ingots so my hard alloy is easy to duplicate almost any time.
    One thing about water quenching your bullets. A metallurgist taught me that quenching will harden your bullets, but the effect is temporary. If you leave quenched bullets set for a period of time (I remember about 2 weeks but don't hold me to that) the lead will return to it's original hardness. Guys who were casting and quenching a whole season's ammunition were not gaining anything with the extra step. My alloy stays the same as far as I can tell.
    Bob Anderson
    Ordnance Sergeant
    Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
    Small Arms Committee

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
    - John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SE Georgia
    Posts
    636
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    Bob,

    What I had read on Cast Boolits was that they actually harden more over about a 2 week period, then start to soften again, and that some folks like to "Age" them. I forget what the time was to soften back to their original state, but it was several months, if not years. Of course, this is just what someone put on the internet, so some real life testing would tell the tale.

    I probably should not have mentioned the quenching, as it is really useless for what we do. Before I got into N-SSA, I was shooting cast bullets in WWII military rifles for fun. Hardening them is a lot more useful in that realm. Bad thing about hardened ones is that they turn to dust when they hit my bullet trap. I like to recover my lead and melt it down again. That works a WHOLE lot better with musket and carbine bullets than it does with .30 cal that have been quenched.
    Last edited by Hal; 02-12-2020 at 07:13 AM.

  7. #7
    Lou Lou Lou is online now
    Team:
    Tammany Regiment, 42nd New York
    Member
    4869
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lung Island, New Yawk
    Posts
    1,965
    Region:
    New England - New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and Massachusetts
    I have a ton (128 lbs) of minies a teammate made up in 1996. Never got around to using them, till now. Used my LBT tester and they tested out at 10. Re-melted and re-cast them and they test out as 5, dead soft. Should work like a charm.
    Lou Lou Lou Ruggiero
    Tammany Regt-42nd NYVI

  8. #8
    ms3635v's Avatar
    ms3635v is offline
    Team:
    1st Pennsylvania Cavalry
    Member
    03635V
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    suburban Philly
    Posts
    866
    Region:
    Middle Atlantic - New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
    I have always used soft lead for both my Smith and my Maynard and since it works well I haven't changed anything.
    Mike Santarelli 03635V, Adjutant
    Member since 1979
    Co. B, 1st Pennsylvania Cavalry, #229
    National Inspector General
    Small Arms Committee

  9. #9
    Lt. Rabbit is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    2
    Region:
    Visitor
    Thanks guys, I will try both, and see if the Carbine has a preference.
    Lt Rabbit

  10. #10
    jonk is offline
    Team:
    Genl Wm T Sherman's Bodyguard
    Member
    12999
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,106
    Region:
    Midwest - Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana
    As said of course, try both hard and soft to see what works best for you. Personally in my Pietta, soft works better. This surprised several guys on the team who have always had better luck with hard lead, but each gun is unique unto itself.

    As for the question of wheelweights, even just 10 years ago if you got a bucket of them most were good hard lead of fairly consistent compsition, with the occasional stick on weight tossed in. Now I find easily half the weight is zinc or stainless steel or even plastic. If you melt it down, make sure to use a lead thermometer to verify that the temp does not exceed the melting point of the zinc, or the batch will be ruined. (One or two zinc weights melted in a big pot of lead won't hurt it but more than a few will mess it up and the batch becomes hard to pour and get good fill out with).

    One thing with smiths too, it is hard to get a good bore measurement due to an odd number of grooves. There are formulas online for this. Mine seems to like .517 but have heard of guns all over from .507 to .520+. That may also impact what hardness your gun likes.

Similar Threads

  1. Lead smelting question
    By Tom Kelley, 6649V in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-26-2015, 11:45 AM
  2. Lead question
    By John H in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-29-2015, 02:47 PM
  3. Lead Hardness Question
    By Bob Lintner in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-05-2014, 08:50 PM
  4. Lead casting question
    By norman horne, 12321 in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-01-2012, 11:13 PM
  5. Question for all Y'all Lead Metallurgist
    By Southron Sr. in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-25-2011, 06:51 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •