Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 41

Thread: Parker Hale Musketoon Quality?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    93
    Region:
    Visitor
    Quote Originally Posted by ikesdad View Post
    David is on the ground in the UK. I would think he has the straight skinny.
    Cannot get any closer than interviewing the Parker-Hale production engineer who was responsible for implementing the introduction of the Enfields!

    David
    David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk - www.facebook.com/ResearchPress
    Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    NWT area
    Posts
    748
    Region:
    Northwest Territory - Michigan, Ohio and Indiana

    Don't youall know that there are 2 different PH makers?

    Fact ......... There is the English model and then the Italian made model. Fact ......... The barrels may be marked exactly alike. The locks internals ARE made differently. The 1st, English made guns have a PH circle stamped into the stock BEFORE the finish was applied. The Italian stocks stamp is stamped AFTER the stock finish was applied. This stamp clearly shows raw wood underneath. If you look you can see it is through the finish. A lot of the previous information is true, but you need to understand that there we are talking about 2 different manufacturers involved and and that they were not made the same way.
    Val Jr or his dad, I heard, bought the trade name PH after they stopped production of the English made guns. His guns have a lot of Italian content. The earliest made Italian guns may even have some left over English made parts in them. When they bought the PH company name they may have also bought the remaining stock left in England.
    Facts need to be presented in the correct sequence in time, in order to understand them..............

    Some additional info that may also be of value : When Parker Hale stopped making muzzle loaders, they sold the naming rights to Euroarms Italia, SrL. For a period of time, Euroarms produced and sold what was essentially their own reproduction Enfield with a Parker Hale barrel for about twice the price...... I found this on a civil war talk site. This may refute the Val influence as I had heard it or Val Jr may have played a part in this at the time, I don't know.
    Last edited by Bruce Cobb 1723V; 1 Week Ago at 01:20 PM.
    N-SSA Member since 1974

  3. #33
    ikesdad is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Western Slope
    Posts
    30
    Region:
    Visitor
    Do you have a serial number sequence that Forgett's rifles were made ?

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    NWT area
    Posts
    748
    Region:
    Northwest Territory - Michigan, Ohio and Indiana

    For more on Vals part in PH

    Quote Originally Posted by ikesdad View Post
    Do you have a serial number sequence that Forgett's rifles were made ?
    Contact info
    Navy Arms, LLC 54 Dupont Rd, Martinsburg, WV 25404 304-274-0004
    Info@NavyArms.com
    N-SSA Member since 1974

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    93
    Region:
    Visitor
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Cobb 1723V View Post
    Fact ......... There is the English model and then the Val Jr made model. Fact ......... When they bought the PH company name they may have also bought the remaining stock left in England. Facts need to be presented in the correct sequence in time, in order to understand them..............
    Bruce all good points and I understand that.

    My discussion points and information direct from a Parker-Hale engineer relate to their Enfield reproductions that started with a boardroom meeting in 1971. The first result was the P.1861 Artillery Carbine introduced in 1972.

    The Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain published an announcement in June 1992 from Vale Forgett III, President of Navy Arms and Gibbs Rifle Company Inc. It was confirmed then that Enfield reproduction rifles would be in production by mid summer. In February 1993 news appeared that their production of the "Parker-Hale" type Navy 1858 rifle had commenced.

    David
    David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk - www.facebook.com/ResearchPress
    Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

  6. #36
    Kevin Tinny is offline
    Team:
    Tammany Regiment, 42nd New York
    Member
    13667
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    365
    Region:
    New England - New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and Massachusetts
    Hello:

    Tx, Bruce.

    There is also the public lawsuit trail between Val and Roger Hale and the Italians.
    Soon after Roger started his Enfield venture, Val "registered" the name "Enfield" and began to legally assert that P-H was infringing. Roger and others also sued ended up in some settlement that left P-H selling to Val.
    At least one other person Val sued successfully defended his use of "Enfield" in U.S. Federal Court.

    Three Americans who lived through this stuff have, this week, shared with me that they are simply tired of all this and don't care about clarifications any more.

    Most respectfully,
    Kevin Tinny

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    NWT area
    Posts
    748
    Region:
    Northwest Territory - Michigan, Ohio and Indiana

    Wow .... Great info

    All great information from knowledgeable people who have a historical perspective regarding these reproductions .... Thanks
    N-SSA Member since 1974

  8. #38
    ikesdad is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Western Slope
    Posts
    30
    Region:
    Visitor
    There are 2 different timelines here....the UK made rifles and then the Italian made rifles.
    Nothing new with that, old info.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    93
    Region:
    Visitor
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Tinny View Post
    Soon after Roger started his Enfield venture, Val "registered" the name "Enfield" and began to legally assert that P-H was infringing. Roger and others also sued ended up in some settlement that left P-H selling to Val.
    That's interesting. I'm aware of one unsuccessful attempt by Val to sue a company for alleged copyright infringment, but not the Parker-Hale connection.

    Do you have any more information on the timeline of this? The Parker-Hale 'Enfield venture' commenced in the latter part of 1972 when the P.61 Artillery Carbine was introduced. News of the sale of part of Parker-Hale business, including its percussion rifle section, to Navy Arms was reaching public domain in the latter part of 1990. That's potentially a long old lawsuit.

    Thanks.

    David
    David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk - www.facebook.com/ResearchPress
    Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    93
    Region:
    Visitor
    Quote Originally Posted by ikesdad View Post
    There are 2 different timelines here....the UK made rifles and then the Italian made rifles.
    Yes, that's my understanding, and with around 20 years between the two stories. It's an engaging subject and I think worthwhile teasing out the details. Through the MLAGB archive I hold there is much coverage and advertising of P-H rifles in their journal, and match reports recording for example Roger Hale's attendence shooting prototype P.53 and P.58 rifles.

    David
    Last edited by dbm; 5 Days Ago at 02:51 AM. Reason: typo correction
    David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk - www.facebook.com/ResearchPress
    Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

Similar Threads

  1. WTB Parker Hale Musketoon
    By musketnut in forum Wanted/For Sale Items
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-13-2018, 01:38 PM
  2. FS Parker Hale Musketoon
    By Don Branch 12592 in forum Wanted/For Sale Items
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-11-2014, 11:51 PM
  3. WTB: Parker Hale Musketoon
    By Steamguy in forum Wanted/For Sale Items
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-10-2014, 09:15 PM
  4. Parker hale musketoon
    By bilge water bob in forum Wanted/For Sale Items
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-07-2012, 09:22 AM
  5. FS Parker Hale Musketoon
    By fullertc in forum Wanted/For Sale Items
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-14-2010, 09:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •