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Thread: A few observations.

  1. #1
    John Bly is offline
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    A few observations.

    I was looking at the musket match results from the 140th Nat'ls and was surprised to see that there were only 29 B teams that competed. Of that 29 only 3 finished the pigeon board. There were 2 C teams and one finished the pigeon board. Other results were equaling interesting:

    42 A-1 teams with 28 finishing the pigeon board
    35 A-2 teams with 7 finishing the pigeon board.
    51 A-3 teams with none finishing the pigeon board

    That's a total of 159 teams with only 39 finishing the pigeon board for a 24.5% completion rate.
    Last edited by John Bly; 10-10-2019 at 12:25 PM. Reason: add musket match

  2. #2
    jonk is offline
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    Interesting indeed!

    I suspect that a lot of the teams that didn't finish their boards were shooting short. We were able to get some pick ups. But even so, me and Ian Egbert accounted for 18 of the pigeons on our board. The rest of our A team just wasn't firing on all cylinders and the pick ups were, as might be expected, the worst shooters that the teams in question had to farm out. We were happy to have them! But I bet other teams who had a full line with pick ups were in a similar boat.

    We DID finish our board with 11 whole seconds remaining. I went 9 shots for 11, I think Ian had 9 for 14 (he is pretty fast on loading). Everyone else went somewhere between 1 for 9 and 5 for 12.

    It's an interesting statistic for those making the argument that we should drop down to 5 or 6 man teams or whatever. I personally don't think we're there quite yet, there are some other options we could consider first.

    As a final thought... the light was... strange. Sunny, cloudy, rainy... all of which move point of impact.

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    I understand the Board is looking at these statistics over the last few years. The topic is being given serious examination...
    Mike 'Bootsie' Bodner
    Palmetto Sharpshooter's, Commander
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    Lou Lou Lou is offline
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    There is a logical fallacy in the argument. Dropping to 5 person teams doesn't magically clear the pigeon board. Odds are more 5 person teams wont finish. Most teams have one or two strong shooters. Now all the bottom 3 shooters will be alone to founder . That WILL end the organization. $0.02
    Lou Lou Lou Ruggiero
    Tammany Regt-42nd NYVI

  5. #5
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    I had already made the same observations that John Bly has noted. I have a different thought as how to approach this problem. Rather than reduce the number of competitors, reduce the number of targets! Why not make the Bird Board 3 Birds per man, with the 50 yard events reduced to 14, and the 100 yard to 9 targets? The same teams that are always in the "Top Ten" will still be at the top of the list. This will accomplish a couple of things, first of which is a few more teams will actually finish the Bird Board, which will keep them coming back. But, more importantly is the N-SSA will save hundreds of dollars in the money spent annually on target materials if all targeting is reduced by just a few targets per event. Keep the team fees the same as they are now, which is added income versus the savings per event in targeting materials. In the end the N-SSA will reap the benefits of less cost for annual targeting, and the teams that win now will be the same teams that still win.

    This proposal has already been addressed at a National Board of Directors Meeting, and you should have been there...."Oh, the horror of it all.....we can't do that!!!" I think it is time to reconsider this at another Board Meeting.

    John Holland, Skirmisher

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    P.Altland is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Holland View Post
    I had already made the same observations that John Bly has noted. I have a different thought as how to approach this problem. Rather than reduce the number of competitors, reduce the number of targets! Why not make the Bird Board 3 Birds per man, with the 50 yard events reduced to 14, and the 100 yard to 9 targets? The same teams that are always in the "Top Ten" will still be at the top of the list. This will accomplish a couple of things, first of which is a few more teams will actually finish the Bird Board, which will keep them coming back. But, more importantly is the N-SSA will save hundreds of dollars in the money spent annually on target materials if all targeting is reduced by just a few targets per event. Keep the team fees the same as they are now, which is added income versus the savings per event in targeting materials. In the end the N-SSA will reap the benefits of less cost for annual targeting, and the teams that win now will be the same teams that still win.

    This proposal has already been addressed at a National Board of Directors Meeting, and you should have been there...."Oh, the horror of it all.....we can't do that!!!" I think it is time to reconsider this at another Board Meeting.

    John Holland, Skirmisher
    Why is it that every proposal is to save the Organization money, yet none are to save the membership any money? Reduce the medal count, reduce the target count, use cheaper individual targets, replace the pots.....on and on.


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    Paul Altland
    21st Va. Md Guard Co. B

  7. #7
    MR. GADGET's Avatar
    MR. GADGET is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.Altland View Post
    Why is it that every proposal is to save the Organization money, yet none are to save the membership any money? Reduce the medal count, reduce the target count, use cheaper individual targets, replace the pots.....on and on.


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    Paul
    I would say it is for say reducing the cost.

    It is like this, all the costs are going up. Just look at the cost of food and added items to get to a Nationals.
    Its like this, my feel is they are saving the shooter money. Easy fix with added costs is to charve the shooter. What they are lookinv to do is save the shooter money by not raising dues as needed but cut costs in other ways by looking at the big picture. That is maybe cutting targets or medals along with other extras.


    So it is up dues or lower costs so there is no need to raise the dues.
    MR. GADGET
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  8. #8
    MR. GADGET's Avatar
    MR. GADGET is offline Moderator
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    John Holland

    I have wondered that for a long time. What you said is my line of thinking.
    Just cut the target costs.. Do this as you said cut the number of targets down.
    Can't remember the last time we cleared the board. We have shot short for years.
    Hard to pick up shooters due to not knowing if the team will show up.
    We shoot short due to medical problems, work, or school. We want team members to shoot so leave the spot open for them.
    But when they can not shoot for health reasons or just can make it last minute it is hard to fine a pickup.
    MR. GADGET
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  9. #9
    P.Altland is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR. GADGET View Post
    Paul
    I would say it is for say reducing the cost.

    It is like this, all the costs are going up. Just look at the cost of food and added items to get to a Nationals.
    Its like this, my feel is they are saving the shooter money. Easy fix with added costs is to charve the shooter. What they are lookinv to do is save the shooter money by not raising dues as needed but cut costs in other ways by looking at the big picture. That is maybe cutting targets or medals along with other extras.


    So it is up dues or lower costs so there is no need to raise the dues.
    Well, that would be the expected, canned answer. When was the last year the Organization ran in a deficit?


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    Paul Altland
    21st Va. Md Guard Co. B

  10. #10
    MR. GADGET's Avatar
    MR. GADGET is offline Moderator
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    Side note to all of this.

    I wish we would collect the un-hit targes and not just scrap the.
    Maybe a box at the towers and along the line. Current boxes all have trash, maybe an extra every 4 to 6 stations could be labeled extra targets.

    We could then use them or sell them as practice targets.
    MR. GADGET
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