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Thread: Burnside Carbine Question

  1. #11
    patio is offline
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    To be honest, my expectations of the groove dia. were at .556 plus. The chamber end cast was done twice. The measurement of the groove depths measured by a micrometer from a low of .5510 to a high of .5518. Wanted to make absolutely sure that this was correct. Took a pure lead minie ball and carefully hammered it into the muzzle end about .100" deep. Carefully pulled it out and measured. High of a little under .552 using my micrometer. Used a dial caliper also to make sure that I wasn't misreading my micrometer -.552.

    Thoughts are that there are (of course) tolerances in the land and groove diameters. Mine is probably towards the low end. Can't really say for sure as this is the only barrel I have to measure.

    Hopefully others will share their experiences.

    Thank you for your replies.
    Last edited by patio; 07-24-2019 at 01:32 PM.

  2. #12
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    3 groove rifling is hard to measure.

  3. #13
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    The Burnside Carbine has a 5 groove bore which, like a 3 groove bore, is also not able to be measured with a common Micrometer or Vernier, so I don't know how Patio did it.

  4. #14
    patio is offline
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    Mine is 6 groove. Counted the grooves by marking each one with a magic marker. Came up with 6.

    Regards,

    Pat

  5. #15
    EPPS1919 is offline
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    Had mine Relined by Hoyt and It's .547 dia 5 grove had it checked with a 3 sided mic


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  6. #16
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    Very interesting, I've seen a lot of Burnsides, but never a 6 groove!

  7. #17
    patio is offline
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    Bought this carbine in the mid 70's at the swap meets in WCH, Ohio from a guy by the name of Jack Lewis. He told me that it was a civilian model due to the lack of a saddle ring bar and sling swivel in the buttstock. The buttstock is cut out for the sling swivel and has the base of the swivel present but no swivel. No inspectors marks in the wood. Breechblock is matching to itself but not the receiver. Haven't taken it apart in many years but think none of the numbered parts matched. Barrel under the handguard has a P proof and the receiver has the same P proof. Can't see a seam in the barrel in the crown area which could be indicative of a reline. Could be very good workmanship but would think there would be some evidence of a seam if relined.

  8. #18
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    Maybe it was 5. I knew it was an odd number. Been a while since I looked at that, but I know I could never get a good slug measurement on mine, much to my chagrin.

    I am a firm believer that bullet fit plays a big role in accuracy as well as whether or not you get leading of the bore. The bad thing on Burnside is that the case will kinda dictate the maximum bullet diameter. Unless you can machine or swage it open, you can only get so big a bullet in there. One thing I ran into was that the action crimps the thin lip at the mouth of the cartridge and gave me an inaccurate measurement of the actual size. I was measuring something like .556 on the case mouth and sizing the bullets accordingly. I found that opening that case mouth a bit would allow a .560 bullet to fully seat, so obviously the case is larger further down inside than the crimped lip I had been measuring. At this point, I believe I will be buying a new mould to take full advantage of this.

  9. #19
    patio is offline
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    Received my mold yesterday. That was quick. Unfortunately, don't have any handles yet. Company is Accurate Molds in Utah.

    http://
    http://
    http://

  10. #20
    patio is offline
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    Got around to casting some bullets today. With pure lead, they are coming in at .5547 and weigh 396 gr. Was able to thumb press (with resistance) the bullet into the nylon case. The bullet bottoms out in the case at the lower part of the case neck radius. Put the case in the chamber and closed the action. Could feel resistance when the action closed as the bullet was engaging the rifling. In my opinion, this is good for 2 reasons. The first reason is the case may loosen a bit after firing. The bullet being forced against the rifling will keep the bullet seated and bottomed out to its proper depth in the case. The second reason is bullet obturation - the deformation and expansion of the bullet base by being smacked in the a$$ by the charge of burning black powder. For my rifle, obturation probably won't matter as my groove dia. is on the tighter side. My barrel will probably have to act as a sizer and swedge the bullet down a little in diameter.

    Back in the days of the Great Rebellion, how were rifles with varying bore/groove diameters able to achieve accuracy with a cartridges of varying tolerances in bullet diameter? I think the answer is getting the bullet to obturate so it fits and seals to the groove diameter of the bore.

    Hal, your .556 dia bullet is probably ok. How to get the bullet to obturate and fit your groove dia will be the challenge.

    For reference, please read Spencer Wolf's book on shooting the trapdoor .45/70 Springfield. The groove diameters of the .45/70 are all over the place too. Bullet obturation took care of the varying groove diameters. Getting 2 ft groups at 50 yds is no fun. Getting 4" groups with the same rifle at 100 yds is. Ask me how I know.....


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    Last edited by patio; 08-02-2019 at 09:06 PM.

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