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Thread: Plastic Smith tubes with brass rivet

  1. #1
    Bob Lintner is offline
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    Question Plastic Smith tubes with brass rivet

    Who sells the black plastic Smith cartridge tubes with the hollow brass rivet in them.? Thanks.
    Bob

  2. #2
    bobanderson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Lintner View Post
    Who sells the black plastic Smith cartridge tubes with the hollow brass rivet in them.? Thanks.
    Bob
    I bought 3/32" aluminum rivets from Graingers.
    Bob Anderson
    Ordnance Sergeant
    Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
    Small Arms Committee

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
    - John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976

  3. #3
    Bob Lintner is offline
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    rivets

    Thanks for the info! Are these pop rivets that need to be drilled out after installation?
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob Lintner; 1 Week Ago at 07:34 AM.

  4. #4
    Kevin Tinny is offline
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    Hello:

    I have a vertical dispersion issue with a mint, perfect bore and unaltered chamber Second Model Smith.
    I thought the vertical issue with iron sights was my eyes.

    Scoped it to be sure. Scope is rock solid. No holes drilled! Used shotgun barrel clamp rings with hard rubber shims. Leupold 4X28 EER PISTOL scope ahead of forend still gives full field of view!
    This can be put on Maynards, etc.

    My best METAL case load of 33gr 3Fg SWISS and a widely used pure lead bullet, cast to +/- .5 grains, that engraves 1/16" produces benched, SCOPE sighted groups at 50 of 1" wide by 2.5" - 3" high.
    These groups are the same as with irons.

    So .... after a long and enlightening chat with Bob Anderson, who has a gift for making things work well:

    Just ordered the black plastic Smith cases, part # CC12, from Phil (and Mary Ann) at S and S to see if bullet tension or too much engraving are factors.... because .... some of my carefully seated and test chambered bullets displayed VARYING amounts of rifling contact. I think too much seating tension might also cock the bullet slightly. Hmmm...

    Bob said case mouth tension VARIATIONS will be less with the plastic ones.

    Phil said that the plastic ones should not swell unless shot in oversized chambers and that they will be ok without the rivet for 3-5 shots.

    Use 3F GOEX/Old Eyensford (sp?) powder because Swiss is too hot and creates more velocity than needed.

    Grainger rivet will extend case life to upwards of 20+ firings. This was an eye-opener for me!

    Per Bob Anderson and Bruce Clark, who I believe pioneered the rivet concept, it is:
    Grainger part - FABORY 3/32 x 1/4 blind rivet part number 32MJ64.

    Avoid pure lead and harden to approx 30 lead to 1 tin alloy.
    Bob said every breech loading bp gun he's tested did better with harder than pure lead.
    Size to .001" to .002" over GROOVE diameter.
    Bullet should just touch, not engrave, rifling. Again, most enlightening.

    Sorry to be perhaps too detailed in this setting, but PM's asked for more info.
    I didn't want to keep Bob's selfless sharing and Bruce's years of work to myself.
    Edited to add what others requested.

    VR and thanks to all,
    Kevin Tinny
    Last edited by Kevin Tinny; 6 Days Ago at 07:25 AM.

  5. #5
    Bob Lintner is offline
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    Exclamation Smith tubes

    Kevin, Bob and Bruce,
    Thanks very much!
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob Lintner; 6 Days Ago at 10:29 AM.

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    Kevin/Bob,

    How are you removing the part of the mandrel that is left inside? Do they push/drive out easily with a pin punch or do they have to be drilled?

  7. #7
    Bob Lintner is offline
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    rivets

    Hal,
    I'm guessing a pin punch.
    Bob

  8. #8
    Kevin Tinny is offline
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    Hello:

    I defer to Bob Anderson, but others indicated last evening that some drilled and some pin punched.
    I will try punch first. Am ordering rivets today. Should arrive coincident with cases.
    Will post vertical testing results. Probably next week.

    I cleared excess PM's. Tx for heads-up.

    VR/Kevin Tinny
    Last edited by Kevin Tinny; 6 Days Ago at 09:48 AM.

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    Thanks Guys.

  10. #10
    bobanderson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Tinny View Post
    Hello:

    I have a vertical dispersion issue with a mint, perfect bore and unaltered chamber Second Model Smith.
    I thought the vertical issue with iron sights was my eyes.

    Scoped it to be sure. Scope is rock solid. No holes drilled! Used shotgun barrel clamp rings with hard rubber shims. Leupold 4X28 EER PISTOL scope ahead of forend still gives full field of view!
    This can be put on Maynards, etc.

    My best METAL case load of 33gr 3Fg SWISS and a widely used pure lead bullet, cast to +/- .5 grains, that engraves 1/16" produces benched, SCOPE sighted groups at 50 of 1" wide by 2.5" - 3" high.
    These groups are the same as with irons.

    So .... after a long and enlightening chat with Bob Anderson, who has a gift for making things work well:

    Just ordered the black plastic Smith cases, part # CC12, from Phil (and Mary Ann) at S and S to see if bullet tension or too much engraving are factors.... because .... some of my carefully seated and test chambered bullets displayed VARYING amounts of rifling contact. I think too much seating tension might also cock the bullet slightly. Hmmm...

    Bob said case mouth tension VARIATIONS will be less with the plastic ones.

    Phil said that the plastic ones should not swell unless shot in oversized chambers and that they will be ok without the rivet for 3-5 shots.

    Use 3F GOEX/Old Eyensford (sp?) powder because Swiss is too hot and creates more velocity than needed.

    Grainger rivet will extend case life to upwards of 20+ firings. This was an eye-opener for me!

    Per Bob Anderson and Bruce Clark, who I believe pioneered the rivet concept, it is:
    Grainger part - FABORY 3/32 x 1/4 blind rivet part number 32MJ64.

    Avoid pure lead and harden to approx 30 lead to 1 tin alloy.
    Bob said every breech loading bp gun he's tested did better with harder than pure lead.
    Size to .001" to .002" over GROOVE diameter.
    Bullet should just touch, not engrave, rifling. Again, most enlightening.

    Sorry to be perhaps too detailed in this setting, but PM's asked for more info.
    I didn't want to keep Bob's selfless sharing and Bruce's years of work to myself.
    Edited to add what others requested.

    VR and thanks to all,
    Kevin Tinny
    Here's the link for the aluminum rivets from Graingers -

    https://www.grainger.com/product/FAB...d-Rivet-32MJ64. They cost about $8 for a bag of 500.

    The "nails" or whatever they are called will push right out of the body of the rivet.

    As far as pressing them into the cases, I used an appropriately sized drill bit and drilled the tubes. Once you do that, they press in easily enough. In use, the flanged head of the rivet will eventually press flush with the back of the case, but that doesn't seem to make any difference.
    Bob Anderson
    Ordnance Sergeant
    Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
    Small Arms Committee

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
    - John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976

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