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Thread: Plastic Smith tubes with brass rivet

  1. #31
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    I pulled out my borescope and looked in the bore of my new Pietta Smith. Bore looks a little dirty from me slugging the bore and I don't have a 50 cal cleaning rod yet to clean up the mess.

    Here is the Eras Gone Smith Carbine bullet, inserted proud in a Yore tube, and then chambered.



    The Eras Gone Smith bulllet is a very accurate copy of Civil-War era Smith bullets.

    The ogive of the bullet does not actually touch the bore. The shoulder on the bullet touches the bore.


    Here is the bore when I have pulled the cartridge out a hair:


    It's interesting that the bullet bottoms out on it's shoulder rather than the ogive. This gives a nice plane of contact so that the bullet will sit straight in the bore. If it sat on the ogive the bullet could pivot around on the conical contact surface.

    Steve
    Last edited by Maillemaker; 5 Days Ago at 03:00 PM.
    Steve Sheldon
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  2. #32
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    For fun, I did the same thing with my Pedersoli P1859 Sharps, using the Eras Gone Richmond Sharps bullet. This one does bottom out on the bullet's ogive. The gun was recently cleaned and the gas check plate greased and a bit got on the nose of the bullet.



    This is the chamber end of the Sharps. There is a chamfer on the bore of the Sharps.



    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
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  3. #33
    Kevin Tinny is offline
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    Hello:

    The swivel deburring gadget IS used on my plastic cases because they are tight on my OD bullet.
    Trying to work the bullets into an unchamfered mouth often makes them tilted and the press doesn't always cure that.

    The interior profile of you cases looks much like the black ones from S&S.

    I never leave airspace UNDER A WAD. I do whatever to eliminate airspace because it will change where the powder lies and can cause greater velocity variations, which are NOT significant for most of us.

    A wad on TOP of the powder WITH an airspace between the wad and bullet can cause the wad to slam into the bullet and raise pressures. I doubt that is enough to be a safety issue with our light/moderate loads, but why risk it. Safety first! Wad must be against the bullet base.

    I like those photo's.

    Make sure you push a bullet through the bore to feel for loose spots or progressive looseness from breech to muzzle. There MUST be none if accuracy is desired.

    Keep it coming. I'm hoping for a "humanitarian release". Sorry. Haha.
    Oops, more typo's. Kinda tough in here at Rykers!

    VR/ Kevin Tinny
    Last edited by Kevin Tinny; 5 Days Ago at 03:12 PM.

  4. #34
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    A wad on TOP of the powder WITH an airspace between the wad and bullet can cause the wad to slam into the bullet and raise pressures. I doubt that is enough to be a safety issue with our light/moderate loads, but why risk it. Safety first! Wad must be against the bullet base.
    So should I put filler in between my wad and my bullet then?

    This is what my 25 grain charge looks like:



    Full size picture here: https://imgur.com/a/OYqlWDv

    I like those photo's.

    Make sure you push a bullet through the bore to feel for loose spots or progressive looseness from breech to muzzle. There MUST be none if accuracy is desired.
    I already did this. I am sad to say that it did seem to me that the push got noticeably easier about mid-way down the barrel. I'm not sure if that is because the bullet was so over-sized to start with (about .522 in a .512 bore), or what.

    This is a practically new Pietta Smith - 2019 manufacture. I thought all those backwards barrels were a thing of the past? When my cleaning rod and sizing die gets here I'm going to clean and oil the bore, and then cast up some pure lead bullets and size them to .515 and re-slug the bore and feel how it goes.

    Steve
    Steve Sheldon
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  5. #35
    Kevin Tinny is offline
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    Thanks, Steve:

    Those tubes look fascinating. Wow. Transparent.
    As Commisioner Gordon said: I got's to get me one of those.
    Please try multiple reloadings of a single case and let us know durability.

    Subject to being advised otherwise here about SAFETY, which I welcome:
    I would put the filler directly on top of the powder and then the wad on the filler so the wad is against the base of the bullet. If the possibility of the filler mixing with powder is a concern, separate with a wax paper barrier.
    That would be overdoing it for me.

    I tested full volume loads with lube (from dipping) on the base and put a wax paper barrier on the powder so the lube did not weaken the powder. This setup made no accuracy difference and placing the wax paper flat on the powder took careful technique. We aren't into extremes, here. Keep it as simple as you can.

    If you get near 32gr 3F, there should be little need for filler and a .125" wad. Creme of wheat and cornmeal are frequently used as filler. Users have shared that unless these are stored in a freezer, bugs will develope. Yum.

    If your bore is unsatisfactory, don't waste effort. You won't learn much useful from testing a loose bore other than it doesn't shoot. Get with Bobby Hoyt for a liner. If the cases seem durable, send a couple along so he knows length, etc for optimal fit.

    Fun putting the shoot into our guns.

    I cannot attach photo's. If you know how to attach Droid cell phone photo's to our Forum posts, please start a separate Thread. I've asked here twice with no responses. Thanks.

    Kevin Tinny

  6. #36
    bobanderson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maillemaker View Post
    I am sad to say that it did seem to me that the push got noticeably easier about mid-way down the barrel. I'm not sure if that is because the bullet was so over-sized to start with (about .522 in a .512 bore), or what.

    Steve
    Mr. Veral Smith of LBT (Lead Bullet Technology, InC.) some years ago sold fire lapping kits and push through slugs to smooth out rifle bores. He told me that when pushing a slug through a bore, you wanted the force required to be constant or gradually lessening. This meant the bore was smooth and the bullet wasn't encountering high and low spots in the bore. If you feel the slug start and stop, it indicates high spots that can degrade accuracy. An ideal bore would be ever so slightly tapered, almost "choked" from breech to muzzle.
    I used his fire lapping technique to smooth out a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps silhouette rifle. After 80 firelapping shots, that bore was a smooth as a baby's bottom. I made Master Class in BPCR with that gun.

    Your "noticeably easier" might be an indicator of a good smooth bore.
    Bob Anderson
    Ordnance Sergeant
    Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
    Small Arms Committee

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
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  7. #37
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    Your "noticeably easier" might be an indicator of a good smooth bore.
    I hope so. Like I said, my 1:20 bullets are coming out at .522 in diameter, and after slugging the max diameter I can pick up is about .511. So that's quite a swage-down. And since the Smith has no lead-in chamfer, naturally it was hard to get it started. It may well be that as it got going it got easier, but I felt like it was easier in the middle than at the muzzle.

    Anyway my cleaning rod and sizing die should be in by the weekend or early next week, and I'm going to cast up some pure lead bullets this weekend for slugging. I'll try and "feel" the barrel more carefully this time.

    Weather looks nice this weekend so if my stuff comes in tomorrow I might go out to the range on the mountain that only has 20 or so benches and they are well spaced apart. Not many people go all the way up to the mountain to shoot anyway.

    Steve
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  8. #38
    Kevin Tinny is offline
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    Hello:

    For starters when slugging a bore, try an approx. ONE caliber long, pure lead piece so any short, loose spots won't be bridged. Longer slugs can miss spots.

    Do this from both ends to feel overall changes.

    Kevin

  9. #39
    bobanderson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Tinny View Post

    Do this from both ends to feel overall changes.

    Kevin
    Don't agree with comparing both ends. I was taught that a proper bore chokes down from breech to muzzle. If so, then pushing from the muzzle should get easier after the first inch or so to the point that there is no resistance to be felt.

    Also, I believe a proper crown should be cherished, protected and not messed with by introducing strange items that may cause wear and wiggles.
    Bob Anderson
    Ordnance Sergeant
    Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
    Small Arms Committee

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
    - John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976

  10. #40
    Kevin Tinny is offline
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    Thanks, Bob:

    Agree on crown. Thanks for the IMPORTANT reminder.
    Crown Issues can be difficult to see and diagnose.
    Simply letting a brass rod jag REAR SHOULDER get pulled back against the crown can damage it over time.

    As Tom Nixon shared;
    If an otherwise good musket barrel goes goofy and bedding is ok, recrown!

    Pushing both ways:
    Yes; almost immediate loss of resistance in choke if mostly at the muzzle.

    Learned both directions method with one-caliber long slug from Karl Kenyon, the smallbore barrel wizard.
    He would often swap ends on a pesky, untapered barrel and it would shoot. Swapping ends is unlikely for us.
    When Olympians like Lones Wigger, gave up on ammo changing with otherwise superb barrels, they went to him. Most of the time he FOUND and REMOVED choke, which he abhored.

    Buttoned barrels, which are not common in our sport, can develope reverse choke via an OD profile taper that reduces stresses as the OD drops toward muzzle. Stress relieving is critical.
    The only buttoned barrels I know of that are in some of our skirmish barrels are 4140 alloy from Douglas.
    They shoot well.

    I hope we continue to hear how Steve's Pietta performs.
    If a bore uniformity issue pops, that can be corrected and all the other aspects will be covered.

    VR/Kevin Tinny

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