What are the headaches with single-shot pistol?

[Mike McDaniel]

OK, it looks like the BOD has suspended single-shot pistol for the time being, at least until some new rules can be put into place. Does anyone have insight into what the concerns were?

[P.Altland]

Based on the Pistol Range Officer’s report, I’m going to say Time & Safety is one of them. There is way to much happening for 1 person.


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[MR. GADGET]

Based on the Pistol Range Officer’s report, I’m going to say Time & Safety is one of them. There is way to much happening for 1 person.


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One would think one person timing and one Safety should get it done.
We are not talking about a 8 man team.

[P.Altland]

Exactly. Problem is, currently it’s single timer/safety. One person cannot watch the targets and the loading and handling process.

Find the video posted by NW Region as an example. Safety is looking downrange as people are palming rammers.


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[RaiderANV]

Rarely do you see a Safety doing the job. They watch targets mainly, talk to members behind the line, stand next to timer and watch or talk to them, check their phone for whatever and occasionally look up at what's going on. There are some that do it correctly......some. Everyone I've taught I make sure they constantly walk up and down the line watching only the shooters loading and firing. Always back and forth until the line is cleared. I've asked other members why they don't walk the line and or say something especially to folks thumbing their balls and the usual response.....Dude, I'm tired of listen to chit if I say something. They'll learn when they blow a finger off. Or a derivative of that kind of reply. I remember starting back in 1983 and seeing a guy sent off the line by his own unit for not doing the job correctly nor listening to his commander when told to get on the ball. Back when things were done right.

[P.Altland]

The question is:

In an event with a minimal number of targets and a single Timer/Safety, where does their Primary responsibility lie? In Revolver, a competitor only loads once so observing the targets would seem to be the Primary duty. In SS Pistol, 3 competitors are loading a short barreled, muzzle first firearm in relatively tight quarters repeatedly. Now what is the the Primary duty observing targets or loading. Can’t do both effectively and that very thing was observed during Fall National with a competitor fumbling under the shooting bench for his fallen rammer while holding a loaded and capped Pistol.

As for Safeties not doing their job, that’s a leadership problem that starts with the Unit Commanders. I’m amazed almost daily how there are so many people that don’t have a reasonable understanding of the rules of an organization that they are a paying member of.


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[RaiderANV]

Good points Paul. Myself I don't see the need to watch targets though I do sometimes. I start the timer at the sound of the horn and stop it when someone yells time. Can't fathom someone not being able to time and watch/safety guys. This is no problem easily solved by those involved being diligent and do their job.

[rgsheppard]

Rarely do you see a Safety doing the job. They watch targets mainly, talk to members behind the line, stand next to timer and watch or talk to them, check their phone for whatever and occasionally look up at what's going on. There are some that do it correctly......some. Everyone I've taught I make sure they constantly walk up and down the line watching only the shooters loading and firing. Always back and forth until the line is cleared. I've asked other members why they don't walk the line and or say something especially to folks thumbing their balls and the usual response.....Dude, I'm tired of listen to chit if I say something. They'll learn when they blow a finger off. Or a derivative of that kind of reply. I remember starting back in 1983 and seeing a guy sent off the line by his own unit for not doing the job correctly nor listening to his commander when told to get on the ball. Back when things were done right.

For a single Timer/Safety, the primary concern should be safety. The T/S doesn't call the targets if hit and they can be checked after the horn. With only three shooters, a single T/S should be sufficient if that person exercises due diligence and acts responsible. A loading stand should also be required of all SBP shooters so that loading can be controlled in a safe direction and restricting the shooter from waving the gun in an unsafe manner.

[ChrisWBR]

The question is:

In an event with a minimal number of targets and a single Timer/Safety, where does their Primary responsibility lie? In Revolver, a competitor only loads once so observing the targets would seem to be the Primary duty. In SS Pistol, 3 competitors are loading a short barreled, muzzle first firearm in relatively tight quarters repeatedly. Now what is the the Primary duty observing targets or loading. Can’t do both effectively and that very thing was observed during Fall National with a competitor fumbling under the shooting bench for his fallen rammer while holding a loaded and capped Pistol.

As for Safeties not doing their job, that’s a leadership problem that starts with the Unit Commanders. I’m amazed almost daily how there are so many people that don’t have a reasonable understanding of the rules of an organization that they are a paying member of.


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Paul summarizes the concerns. During the demonstration SSP matches multiple safety violations were observed with safeties taking no action. Given a review of issues and the potential for a serious accident (which would affect our insurance) our legal advisor suggested we table the matches until a safety review was conducted and report provided to the Board.
As I am one of the people conducting the review, if you have suggestions for improving SSP team match safety, please send them on to me. I can be reached at chris@washingtonbluerifles.com.
The intent is to get a safety review done, make recommendations, implement them, and continue SSP team matches if the Board votes to resume.
Chris
National Revolver Range Officer

[Toddj]

I've timed and safety'd for smooth bore pistol Team competition once. After the event I went to our commander and told him my concerns and informed him I would never safety for this event again. \\

Its hectic and you have to be focused on the loaders.


Recommendations:
1. For the loading part, I think we need to devise a mandatory loading block to hold the pistol when loading. One that will hold the weapon firmly and slightly forward of vertical, that keeps the barrel from moving. The one thing I noticed was that the competitor is concentrating on getting the round down the barrel and seated and some were not aware that the barrel was moving towards someone's head. I called this out time and time again. There's too much risk for a person to load while holding the weapon.

2. Make it mandatory to keep the dividers up. The team I safety'd dropped the dividers between them, I ask them not to do this but was informed that by the rules, they could do it. SO you had people shooting, sparks flying while the other team members were loading, open powder exposed in very close proximity. NOT GOOD.

3. Train the safety Officers for each team. 30 minutes prior to the event, have all the people acting as safety officers meet at the range, go over their responsibilities and some of the things to look for on the line that's not acceptable and EXPRESS the IMPORTANCE of their JOB. After the event, have them meet to go over their observations and possible improvements to safety. At least for the first few competitions.

4. Give more power to the safety officer to ground weapons and pull competitors for safety violations. And if anyone gives the safety officer grief, the team is pulled from the line.

I would also videotape the first few events so it may be examined for shooting line issues and safety problems that could be addressed. I would keep that same tower crew and support together so you have consistency of observations.

It doesn't seem it by the write-up above, but I'm looking forward to this event, it should be a lot of fun!! IF done right.

JT
12th US Regulars