Wow, you definitely need to size them. Just saw your later post good luck with your new sizer. Most lubes are bees wax based with any number of vegetable oils or tallows mixed in. 50-50 is a good starting point. Your about to have a alot of fun.Originally Posted by mrappe
Kurt
Moderator
If you are dropping a average 578 than I bet a 575 sizer will be too small.
Also depends on the sizer and how true it is the bullet may get deformed trying to bring a 5785 to 575.
May want to step it
What type sizer you using may have missed it.
If they are the threaded press type I may be able to help you. Got some sizers I plan to sell because I had started using a different press.
MR. GADGET
NRA LIFE BENEFACTOR MEMBER
Rowan Artillery
N-SSA National Provost Guard
Just remember!
When a pot needs stirring, someone needs to do it...
I just got my sizer in the mail yesterday and I just finished sizing a bunch of them. The sizer/plunger that I got from Lodgewood seems to be working fine. It screws into the loading press that I have and just scrapes off the areas that are slightly to big. I the balls now appear to want to easily slide into the barrel but I have not allowed them to go all the way in since I don't want to have to fish them out. I have a lot of beeswax and some beef tallow to make the lube. I want to be able to put them in paper cartridges so I need that will not melt int the Texas heat and contaminate the powder. I have heard that the original cartridges were lubed with beeswax and tallow but I don't know the ratio that was used. Does anyone know?
Thanks,
Mike
Hello, Mike:
Some of my hard learned lessons and caring tips from others:
You can drill a 1/8" hole in the end of the sized minie, screw in a drywall screw and have a short, finger hold to test the first inch's fit. Ideally it should be just barely shy of touching the lands.
Can do the same thing and screw (1/4" GOOD FIT) minie onto the end of a cleaning rod and oil the bore. Slowly push it GENTLY down the bore, feeling for tight (resistance) or loose (less than usual resistance). If sized .001" UNDER LAND diameter, there may be NO resistance. You are checking for uneven bore diameter by FEEL. Doing this with a diameter that just rides the tops of the lands will give more feel.
Lightly/barely finger lubing the as-cast minie before sizing will reduce sizing stress and lead drag back on the base. I found that a LITTLE base edge flash did not hurt accuracy. If it bothers you, just press them onto a lightly oiled thick glass plate and rub the flash flat.
Bullet WEIGHT variation does matter! Try to hold them to +/- a grain to start. That's a two grain range. The oft-suggested +/- 1/2 grain may create too many rejects and it won't matter at the beginning.
Wind BLOWS these a little MORE than a 22LR target round. A 10 MPH sidewind needs to be offset. It can blow your minie more than you wish.
Bouncing a rod on the minie to make extra sure it is all the way down can create velocity changes and vertical dispersion. Test this and see.
Lube COMPOSITION will change how the lubed minie runs down a fouled bore.
I thought a particular, widely acclaimed lube would be just fine, but found that with a properly sized minie, I could only get 5 to 8 shots before gritty loading with the less easily gripped, short brass range rod allowed at skirmishes and enlarged groups. So, don't be too attached to your home brewed lube. Try Len's and Dewald's MCM. You need as LARGE a sized diameter, short of touching the lands that allows REASONABLY EASY LOADING of 10 to 15 consecutive shots before wiping. This allows you more than enough shots during a skirmish relay.
I found that extra tight that did engrave slightly did not tighten groups compared to barely under land diameter. And the engraving ones would not allow sufficient shots from a fouled bore.
For what it's worth, I also found that variations in the purity of my lead MATTERED, both for as-cast diameter and accuracy. Don't try to use mystery metal.
Trying to size over .0015" in a single pass created too much stress on the minie and when I started I had to stage in .001" to .0015" pre-LUBED steps.
Groups and accuracy should be best with 3F powder.
ALL this was shared with me by gray-beard skirmishers when I started.
All the best,
Kevin Tinny
Last edited by Kevin Tinny; 06-30-2018 at 03:59 PM.
Slip a piece of steel (1/2" round stock, 3/8" socket extension, whatever) down the barrel before you try to fit a minie. Once it's in, you can tip it back out again.
Bob Anderson
Ordnance Sergeant
Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
Small Arms Committee
"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
- John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976
I make my own lube (a combination of beeswax, pure neatsfoot oil and Neutrogena soap called "N" Lube) that works winter or summer and does NOT have any fouling problems. I cast it into lubrisizer sticks and also pour it into small tubs to use as top cylinder lube in my revolver. Every skirmisher and BPCR guy I've shared the recipe with has proclaimed it the best they've ever used. Not bragging, just saying.
I'm a long time black powder shooter and as such, I don't buy anything I can make better myself, including lube.
Bob Anderson
Ordnance Sergeant
Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
Small Arms Committee
"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
- John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976
[QUOTE=bobanderson] "I make my own lube (a combination of beeswax, pure neatsfoot oil and Neutrogena soap called "N" Lube) that works winter or summer and does NOT have any fouling problems. I cast it into lubrisizer sticks and also pour it into small tubs to use as top cylinder lube in my revolver. Every skirmisher and BPCR guy I've shared the recipe with has proclaimed it the best they've ever used. Not bragging, just saying."
OK, Bob. We're all waiting with bated breath....what's the formula?
Can't wait to try "N-Lube".
Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons
Melt 8 oz of bees wax (by weight or volume, it's the same), 8 oz of pure neetsfoot oil (not the compound) and one bar of unscented Neutrogena soap (used by people with skin issues, you can get it at Meijer, WalMart and some pharmacies).
The soap has the highest melting point, so I get that melted into the oil first. After everything has melted together, shave a few flakes of Ivory soap and get that blended in as well. (It stops the Neutrogena from separating as the concoction cools. If you skip this step, your lube sticks will look like a parfait.)
As I said earlier, this was given to me by a 1000 yard black powder cartridge shooter because he noticed I was having severe fouling issues with a 45-90 with a 34" barrel. The last 4 inches were like a crusty plowed field. Once I switched to this lube, all of that ceased. If your bullet has enough grease grooves, you'll see that nice gooey ring at the muzzle that tells you it is working. The lube works great all year round.
Thanks to Chuck Fugate a couple of years ago for the Ivory soap idea. John Dam and Bruce Clark of the 1st Michigan are satisfied converts. (John named it "Bob-O-Lene".)
I made my own lubrisizer stick moulds using pvc pipe with wooden plugs and old aluminum arrow shafts to make the center hole. When I make a batch, usually a double batch, I cast the sticks and usually pour a couple of small tubs for revolver lube.
Bob Anderson
Ordnance Sergeant
Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
Small Arms Committee
"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
- John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976
Guess this thread has broadened:
Only one thing with regard to neatsfoot oil, please, and Bob KNOWS what he's doing:
Most, commonly available brands of neatsfoot oil, are formulated with INSECTICIDE to ward off insects in horse tack rooms. The insecticides are problematic in black powder bullet lube. They are often petro-chem compounds that burn and can leave deposits that increase fouling. They also ROT STITCHING in our accoutrements!
So-called and labeled "pure" neatsfoot oil usually contains mineral spirits, which is another petro-chem. So do those labeled "PRIME". LINCOLN brand "pure" DOES CONTAIN petroleum distillates.
The only truly pure brands I have found are ANGELUS and FEIBINGS, but READ the label as both brands make versions WITH insecticides and other petro-chem's.
Please keep inquiring so that you make informed progress.
Again, I am grateful for all the thoughtful sharing on this Forum.
Very respectfully,
Kevin Tinny
How big a bar of soap? It appears that they are 3.5 ounces. Is that the correct size?Melt 8 oz of bees wax (by weight or volume, it's the same), 8 oz of pure neetsfoot oil (not the compound) and one bar of unscented Neutrogena soap (used by people with skin issues, you can get it at Meijer, WalMart and some pharmacies).
Steve
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