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Thread: Usage of the Pattern 1858 two-band rifle-musket

  1. #1
    bones92 is offline
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    Usage of the Pattern 1858 two-band rifle-musket

    Does anyone have a link that describes actual usage of Pattern 1858 Enfield rifle-muskets in the ACW? I understand there was a Pattern 1858 used in India that was bored out to smoothbore to allow usage of round ball, but I'm referring to the 1858 rifle-musket that is essentially just a shorter version of the Patt' 1853.

    Or perhaps someone can briefly describe it's usage here.

    Thanks!

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    The Pattern P1858 is not simply a shorter version of the P1853. It has 5 groves and a faster 1:48 twist.

    This video briefly mentions the evolution of the P58:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmflqQfgXgM

    He has several great videos concerning British firearms.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJUJkK4XJ3c
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjtJF7pyhZE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-KGjG3PrE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_We_aiQshY


    Steve

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    bones92 is offline
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    Thank you much, Steve. This should be helpful.

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    Muley Gil is offline
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    The 1853 pattern Enfield is a rifle musket. It has a 39" barrel. The 1858 with brass fittings is a naval rifle. It has a 33" barrel. There was also a 1856 sergeant's rifle with iron fittings. It also has a 33" barrel (IIRC).
    Gil Davis Tercenio
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    Great, great grandson of Cpl Elijah S Davis, Co I, 6th Alabama Inf CSA

  5. #5
    bobanderson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maillemaker View Post
    The Pattern P1858 is not simply a shorter version of the P1853. It has 5 groves and a faster 1:48 twist.

    This video briefly mentions the evolution of the P58:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmflqQfgXgM

    He has several great videos concerning British firearms.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJUJkK4XJ3c
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjtJF7pyhZE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-KGjG3PrE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_We_aiQshY


    Steve
    Thanks for the links, Steve. I have both Enfields and used to own a very accurate Volunteer Rifle
    that I sold in a weak moment. Sure miss that one.
    Bob Anderson
    Ordnance Sergeant
    Company C, 1st Michigan Volunteer Infantry
    Small Arms Committee

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."
    - John Wayne in "The Shootist", 1976

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    buckeye is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maillemaker View Post
    The Pattern P1858 is not simply a shorter version of the P1853. It has 5 groves and a faster 1:48 twist.

    This video briefly mentions the evolution of the P58:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmflqQfgXgM

    He has several great videos concerning British firearms.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJUJkK4XJ3c
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjtJF7pyhZE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-KGjG3PrE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_We_aiQshY


    Steve
    Rob from Canada does a very nice job explaining various British Martial Arms and their history. If you're on YouTube a lot subscribe to his channel. Best part is he's great at answering whatever questions you may have too.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

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    Hallo!

    In brief...

    In my heresies it is next to impossible to differentiate between "Enfield" rifle models in ACW usage due to the really poor and loose terms and descriptions used. It also does not help any with we do not know whether entries for 'rifles' were for rifles or actually rifle-muskets.

    The four patterns of the P1853 rifles tend to be frequently just 'short rifles" without any mention of P1856 Short R aka Army, P1858 Short Rifle No 2, the P1858 Short R aka Naval, the (1860 Short R, and the P1861 Short R.

    Most US and CS imports were the P1856 'Army."

    I am forgetting the source, ...but believe it was one of the Whisker/Hartzler/Yantz books that lists an entry for 1800 (2,000?) Enfield Naval Rifles.

    After the Sepoy Mutiny, the British made an effort to not make a whole lot of (visual ) difference between British and "native" or colonial troops in arms. The outgrowth was the P1858 smoothbore musket. As the companion arm for sergeants they came out in 1858 with the P1858 smoothbore "Sergeant's Fusil" which was a "variant" of the P1856 Sergeant's Fusil which instead of the .577 rifled bore was a smoothbore .656.

    Curt


    Curt
    Curt Schmidt
    Formerly 17 years a Sherman's Bodyguard
    Married to a descendant of Senator John Sherman's wife

  8. #8
    Southron Sr. is offline
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    The P-58 Enfield Naval Rifle with the "magic" 1 in 48" Twist, 5 land and groove "heavy" barrel proved to be so accurate in tests conducted by the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia in 1862, it was selected as the "issue" arm for the ANV "Sharpshooter Battalions" when it was available. When supplies of P-58 and P-60/61 Short Rifles ran out, Confederate Sharpshooters were issued regular P-53 Enfields.

    In a few cases, British made Whitworth and Kerr Rifles were imported and issued to Sharpshooters, but the numbers of those rifles were very low compared to the numbers of .577 Enfield rifles available.

    The proviso was to exhibit its best accuracy, the P-58-P-60/61 had to be used with British made ammunition. Caleb Huse, the Confederate arms purchasing agent in Liverpool purchased and shipped to the Confederacy Enfield Pritchett cartridges made by Eley So, when possible, Confederate Sharpshooters were supplied with the British made Eley Pritchett cartridges.

    The British NRA conducted target matches all over the British Isles in the 1860's that were open to members of the regular British Army and civilian "Volunteers" (militia members.) The standing rule was that because the P-58 was so accurate, to "level the playing field," any competitor that used a P-58 in match competition had 10% of his final score deducted! This was because the P-58 Navy Rifle was so much more accurate than the regular P-53 Enfield.

    College Hill Arsenal had a Confederate P-58 Naval Rifle for sale a while back, here is what they said about it:

    https://collegehillarsenal.com/shop/...?productid=934

  9. #9
    Southron Sr. is offline
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    Fred Ray has written an excellent book going into the history of the ANV Sharpshooter Battalions. I cn highly recommend it:

    http://sharpshooters.cfspress.com/

    That book and my post above should give you all the information you desire about the "useage" of Confederate P-58's during the War of Northern Aggression.

    Oh yes, when it comes to replica's of the P-58, both Parker-Hal and Pedersoli "got it right" with their replicas of the P-58 because they used the "magic" 1 in 48" Twist along with the 5 land and groove "heavy" barrel.

    Armi-Sport really "botched it" when it came to their replica of the P-58....they used a 1 in 60 something inch Twist....AAAARRRRGGGG!

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    Southron Sr. is offline
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    Fred Ray has written an excellent book going into the history of the ANV Sharpshooter Battalions. I cn highly recommend it:<br><br>http://sharpshooters.cfspress.com/<br><br>That book and my post above should give you all the information you desire about the "useage" of Confederate P-58's during the War of Northern Aggression.<br><br>Oh yes, when it comes to replica's of the P-58, both Parker-Hal and Pedersoli "got it right" with their replicas of the P-58 because they used the "magic" 1 in 48" Twist along with the 5 land and groove "heavy" barrel.<br><br>Armi-Sport really "botched it" when it came to their replica of the P-58....they used a 1 in 60 something inch Twist....AAAARRRRGGGG!<br>
    <br>

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