Goex vs swiss

[ian45662]

Anyone here made the switch from goex to swiss? I was thinking about it but I would like to find out how much better it is if at all before I lay down the extra coin.

[Greg Ogdan, 11444]

Ian,

People may think I'm a little nuts, but here's what I use.

Musket 45grFFg Goex/55gr FFg Goex
Sharps Carbine 50gr FFg Goex
Postdam 50gr FFFG Schuetzen/65gr FFFg Swiss

This seems to be what the guns like. Please don't ask me why.

Schuetzen fouls less than goex, but it doesn't seem to work in my musket. Swiss is really costly.

I came to this from roundball shooting and I use the Schuetzen and Swiss in that discipline also.

Confused yet?!

[Don Dixon]

When I joined the U.S. International Muzzle Loading Team, I did some extensive chronograph testing on Swiss powder because other team members told me that when we traveled internationally the only things that we could relly on having available were Swiss powder and German (RWS) caps. Swiss FFFg consistently gave me half the standard deviation of the lots of Goex FFFg that I tested against it. Subsequent lots of Swiss have been significantly more consistent than anything else I have tested. After the first chronograph tests, I started using Swiss in all the black powder guns that I shoot.

Since changing to Swiss, I've won the N-SSA grand aggregate once, the Revover Aggregate twice, been second on the Grand Agregate twice, won my Distinguished Skirmisher badge, and Distinguished Shooter badges with Revover, Carbine, and Breech Loading Rifle. I won the NRA Civil War national championship aggregate once and was second twice (I only shot it three times). I was fourth with cap lock dueling pistol at one of the MLAIC world championships, and I have two zone records with original revolver. Swiss works better for me in my full range of arms than anything else I have tried.

It is more expensive, but only you can be the judge of whether the additional cost is worth it to you. Unfortunately, this is not a compensated advertisement for Swiss powder.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

There's an "NRA Civil War Championship"?? Please tell us about it.

Oh, regarding the powder, yes, Swiss and Scheutzen are both well known to be cleaner-burning and more consistent when compared to Goex, both for muzzle-loading and blackpowder cartridge shooting. There have been numerous articles published in the relevant literature over the years which substantiate this. I can't recall any of the serious top competitors in either long-range blackpowder cartridge or long-range muzzleloading who use Goex; they all use Swiss, Scheutzen, or Elephant. I've heard of some competitors who still use Goex, but they sift out the fines to make it more consistant.
But, whether it is worth the extra expense depends on the type and level of shooting you do. If you are just breaking birds at 50 yards, I doubt your team will see any jump in their ranking if you (or the whole team) switches to Swiss. But if you are intent upon trying to nudge past the guy above you in the Grand Ag in the individuals, then you might want to give it a try.

[Don Dixon]

Glenn,

The NRA has held black powder national championships for some years. There are several aggregates, including a Civil War aggregate which includes musket, carbine, and revolver matches. They use NMLRA targets, permit adjustable sights on revolvers and the Ruger "Old Army," and have a 25 yard stage in carbine, so its much different than what we shoot at Winchester. I always shot standard N-SSA weapons since that is what I had. Initially the matches were held at Camp Perry, OH, immediately before pistol week in the real National Championships. Since I went out to Perry to shoot pistol week, I also shot the Civil War aggregate. Then the NRA moved the black powder matches to Friendship, IN, and partnered with the NMLRA in a supposed effort to improve participation. That didn't work. I shot the matches once there, and have not been back since, since it has not been convenient, and the rules turned stupid. No spoting scopes were premited on-line. And, you had to leave the line and go to the loading bench each time you wanted to load, even for breech loading carbine. Absolutely clueless for Civil War era weapons. Probably all right for patched ball, when you need to pound the ball down the barrel. But I don't shoot those, nor do I wear a breech cloth and live in primitve camp.

If you want to shoot the matches, they are held in July.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

Hi Don,
Many thanks for the info. It does sound like it might be fun to try.

[le piaf]

Hello ,
In Europe , US black powder is not available , but I can speak about swiss powder .
They are expansive ,even in France , but they are the best choice for competition . A test was made , between french and swiss powder with a PH two bands Cal .58 at 100 Meters. the bests result for Speed regularity were with the french powder however in the target the winner was the swiss with a 2MOA hole versus a 5MOA for the french .
the speed ignition regularity of the swiss powder is a good explanation.
I spent 10 years of my life in international MLAIC Championships with swisspowder as partner....... and I was not alone in this choice.

[Jim Leinicke 7368V]

I recently started playing with Swiss 1.5 g in my skirmish guns because I had a quantity of the stuff. I shoot a Hoyt-lined (1:56" twist) .54 Mississippi with the old Rapine 400 grain minie, and I got my best groups with only about 36-38 grains of GOEX 3fg, which was marginal for reliable skirt expansion. I tried the slower burning Swiss 1.5 fg in order to get the same results but with a bit more powder by weight and slightly higher velocity. It worked, and my rifle has never shot better or more consistently for me (Which was my object). The price of powder being among the lesser of my cost concerns in this sport, I don't mind the higher price. I also have found 28 grains of Swiss 1.5 g to be a very consistent performer in my Maynard carbine.

Having said this, I am not at all sure that Swiss 2fg might not be a better choice. I simply have not yet tried it.

[Terry Davis 10639]

I have recently been trying to work up a load in 45-70 for my trapdoor.
Now I will admit I have not worked out all the variables yet such as compression and crimp, but there is a noticable difference in group size between the 3F goex and the 3F swiss I tried. The Swiss is much tighter and actually stays on the paper, which is not always true of the Goex.

Compared with sighting in my Smith, Sharps and Musket when I first got them, this trapdoor thing is a real PITA. I am starting to picture a 45-70 lamp.