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Thread: Belgian Spencer?

  1. #1
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    Belgian Spencer?

    Quick question - dad had a complete original Spencer Carbine that Iím hoping to list and sell on the B.B.

    Not sure if itís allowable however for NSSA skirmishes since it was made after 1865.

    Its a nice specimen but has a half dollar sized round cartouche on butstock that clearly shows Liege (Belgium) and a year - 1874.

    Just want to know which venue to move her: here, or a local gun shop via consignment.

    Many thanks for any help/information!
    Very Respectfully & Semper Fi,
    Colonel Rob Freeman, USMC
    (USMC '97 - Present)
    WBR #5171V

    "The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor."
    Vince Lombardi

  2. #2
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    Why not?

    People sell modern Henry rifles and repop Spencers.
    MR. GADGET
    NRA LIFE BENEFACTOR MEMBER
    Rowan Artillery


    Just remember!
    When a pot needs stirring, someone needs to do it...

  3. #3
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    Rob, yes your Belgian copy of the M-1865 Spencer Carbine is allowed to be sold on this page. In addition, it is allowable for use in the N-SSA Breech Loading Rifle; Class 2 Carbine Matches, both Team and Individual. All the owner has to do is take it to the SAC for an Individual Approval.

  4. #4
    mike owsiak is offline
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    Belgian Spencer

    Rob, Belgian Spencers were made by Falisse &Trappman of Liege, Belgian in 1873 only less than 1000 made.......................MIKE O.

  5. #5
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    Not only are they well made, they are in .56-50, and it may already be in Center Fire!
    Last edited by John Holland; 01-08-2018 at 09:54 PM.

  6. #6
    Steve Weems is offline
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    Belgium Spencer suggestion

    Spencerís are a lot of fun to shoot so you might want to try a few rounds before you make a final decision to sale. Spencerís have a lot of history not only here in U.S. but around the world.

  7. #7
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    According to the information I have, the Falisse & Trapmann Spencers were manufactured 1873-74 in rim-fire and were converted to center-fire in 1877. The conversion was by milling out of a dovetail to allow the firing pin assembly to be added. As for quantities, I have seen them serialized as low as 12 to as high as 1776 like at the site below:

    http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20bre...pmann%20gb.htm
    First Cousin (7 times removed) to Brigadier General Stand Watie (1806-1871), CSA
    1st Cherokee Mounted Rifles | Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation 1862-66

  8. #8
    Southron Sr. is offline
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    Belgian Spencer

    From what I recall from the James Burton papers, as soon as the War of Northern Aggression was over, James Burton, the former Superintendent of Confederate Armories, who lived in Macon, Ga at rhe time, took off his Confederate Colonel's uniform and put on a business suit.

    He headed to Boston to see if he could get a license from the Spencer Company to produce Spencers under license in Europe. So, I am wondering IF Failsse & Trapmann purchased heir Spencer machine tools from G&B? Did Failse & Trapmann have a license to produce their Spencers from the Spencer company in Boston?

    Burton had a contractual arrangement with the British machine tool firm of Greenwood & Batley where he got a sales commission for the G&B machine tools he sold to manufacturers in Europe. By the way, in 1863, Burton acting as Superintendent of Confederate Armories, had signed a contract on behalf of the Confederate government, with G&B for THREE complete sets of machine tools to manufacture Enfield, P-53 Rifles.

    Why three sets of machine tools? To insure that at least one set of tools got thru the Blockade to be installed in the Macon Armory to have a complete factory. When completed, the Macon Armory was planned to be the largest small arms manufacturing plant in the world. However, the war was over before the Macon Armory building was completed and many of the G&B machine tools did not make it through the Blockade before the war ended.

    Anyway, back to the immediate post war era. When the Franco-Prussian War broke out in 1870, the French purchased huge quantities of surplus Civil War arms
    to equip their rapidly expanded armies. Among the tons and tons of U.S. arms purchased by the French was a large number of U.S. made, war surplus Spencers.

    G&B "cashed in" on the Franco-Prussian War by building the machine tools to mass produce Spencer ammo in a subsidiary company. That British company happily sold the Spencer ammo they made to the French!

    Oh yes, the Franco-Prussian War was the LAST war Germany won.

  9. #9
    Southron Sr. is offline
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    Another thought. U.S. patents are usually good for 14 years. Assuming Christoper Spencer patented his arm in 1859-60 time frame, there is a possibility that Failsse & Trapmann simply waited for the Spencer patents to expire in 1873 or 1874 before producing their Spencers. Hence maybe more research needs to be done.

    However by the time Failsse & Trapmann produced their Spencers the American Spencer company had either been purchased by Winchester and was for all practical purposes, defunct.

  10. #10
    Ibgreen is offline
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    The Belgium Spencer's appear to be dead on copies of 1868NM Spencers. I believe that in order for use, a replacement M1860 cartridge follower (without the Spencer cutoff) would need to be swapped out.

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