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Thread: Smith Carbine: Original Load Data?

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    Earl Burlin is offline
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    Smith Carbine: Original Load Data?

    Hello all! I am thinking about buying a Smith carbine replica from Pietta. I understand that Dixie Gun Works sells black plastic cases for these rifles that look similar to the originals, but they only hold about 35 grains of powder when topped with a .515" 360 grain bullet, firing the load at about 750 FPS. I remember reading that original Smith carbines used 50 grains of powder, and would fire the same bullet to about 950-1000 FPS.

    I am wondering if anyone knows the true load data for original Smith carbine cartridges? If they really did use 50 grains of powder back then, why are today's cases limited to just 35 grains of powder? I'll have to admit that power drop is one reason that I'm hesitant of ordering a Pietta Smith carbine... I would want it to have the same ballistics as an original.

    If any Smith carbine shooters are out there, please let me know if you have the answer. Thanks!

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    RaiderANV's Avatar
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    Don't know the original specs but I have brass cases that hold 45 grain and a 320 grain .518 bullet. Now back before I got religion and bought my first of dozens of Maynard's I shot a smith. Super accurate with the 35 grains I used in it. Took it deer hunting one time and shot the deer through both shoulders when it back up half a step as I squeezed the trigger. In one side and out of the other and went through bone on both sides. Not sure what your aiming to shoot but I'd suggest ya don't need 50 grains.

    Id also venture a guess that 40 grains of mordern 3F would rival the 50 of 2F back in the day
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    jonk is offline
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    I also couldn't tell you what the original charge was, but the smith tubes are often reduced capacity on purpose. I know mine shoots best with 30 gr of 2F.

    I will also say that one time I shot 35 gr of 3FG Swiss in mine. Recoil was enough to cause the lever that breaks open the action to ride up and pop her open. Mine is also a Pietta that otherwise locks up tight with no wobble.

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    Dean Thomas's book, " Roundball to Rimfire, Volume 2" pages 226 to 246, lists two powder charges; 50.48 grains and 52.25 grains. I shoot an original Smith using the black plastic cases and 28 grains of GOEX 3F and a 400 grain Moose bullet sized to .518". This combination produces great results. Everyone shooting a Smith has their own favorite loads, so I guess the most prudent answer is to experiment until you find a combination that works for you.
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    Earl Burlin is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms3635v View Post
    Dean Thomas's book, " Roundball to Rimfire, Volume 2" pages 226 to 246, lists two powder charges; 50.48 grains and 52.25 grains. I shoot an original Smith using the black plastic cases and 28 grains of GOEX 3F and a 400 grain Moose bullet sized to .518". This combination produces great results. Everyone shooting a Smith has their own favorite loads, so I guess the most prudent answer is to experiment until you find a combination that works for you.
    I wonder that with a modern sporting powder such as Swiss, maybe 3F, if we could reach the original 1000 FPS velocity of the 360 grain traditional bullet? I simply ask as I'd like the carbine to be able to fire a load as historically accurate as possible. I understand that it may not be the most accurate, but I don't wish to be limited to modern target-only loads.

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    Earl,

    In the same book, it lists varying weights of which include: 367, 346, 352, 375, 409, 462, 518, 452, 469 and 359. Just a side note on the Pietta Smiths, on my team we have four Piettas being used and the bores on them vary in size from .502" through .510". Three members have had their Piettas relined to shoot .518" diameter bullets by Bobby Hoyt. It would be interesting to see if you could achieve accurate loads that replicate the original issued ammunition.
    Mike Santarelli 03635V, Adjutant
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    Earl Burlin is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms3635v View Post
    Earl,

    In the same book, it lists varying weights of which include: 367, 346, 352, 375, 409, 462, 518, 452, 469 and 359. Just a side note on the Pietta Smiths, on my team we have four Piettas being used and the bores on them vary in size from .502" through .510". Three members have had their Piettas relined to shoot .518" diameter bullets by Bobby Hoyt. It would be interesting to see if you could achieve accurate loads that replicate the original issued ammunition.
    Thanks guys. I just shot Dixie Gun Works a message to see if they would be interested in making "original capacity" cases that would hold the original 50 grain powder charges of, you guessed it, the original guns. We'll see what they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Burlin View Post
    Thanks guys. I just shot Dixie Gun Works a message to see if they would be interested in making "original capacity" cases that would hold the original 50 grain powder charges of, you guessed it, the original guns. We'll see what they say.
    What are you trying to achieve?

    You can actually load a Smith from the muzzle. Put an empty cartridge in the breech and close the action. Turn the gun up, and pour your 50 grains down the barrel, followed by ramming a bullet until fully seated on the powder. Then cap and fire as normal.
    Tom Magno, 9269V
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    Earl Burlin is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Magno, 9269V View Post
    What are you trying to achieve?

    You can actually load a Smith from the muzzle. Put an empty cartridge in the breech and close the action. Turn the gun up, and pour your 50 grains down the barrel, followed by ramming a bullet until fully seated on the powder. Then cap and fire as normal.
    I am trying to achieve the original load for this carbine. By original, I mean the 1860's era U.S. military issue load using the original .50 caliber 360 grain bullet with the same 50-52 grain powder charge as originally used in these carbines. I understand fully that this may not be the most accurate load, but I still would like to recreate cartridges offering the same velocity as the originals, if that is possible. It may not be since today's reproduction Smith cases all seem to be reduced capacity cases tailored for light target shooting.

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