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Thread: Minié Ball Help - Parker Hale 1858 Enfield

  1. #1
    Semisane is offline
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    Minié Ball Help - Parker Hale 1858 Enfield

    This is my first post here guys. I'm a dedicated shooter of muzzle loaders - flintlock & percussion with round balls from .32 to .58 - but I have no experience with muskets and Miniés.

    Last October I acquired a really nice 1858 Enfield by Parker Hale that I've yet to shoot (hunting season and life got in the way ).





    Now, as March approaches the weather down here in S.E. Louisiana is going to get mighty nice for spending a day on the rifle range. So I'm getting ready.


    A Rapine 577460 mold came along with the gun.





    So today I cast a bunch of Minié balls and did a quick quality control sort with a digital scale. This is what I got.





    Somewhat to my surprise, the "460 grain" mold threw balls in the 490 grain range with pure soft lead. I figure I have 52 very good quality balls and another 21 to use for sighting in, plinking, etc.


    Now here's my dilemma. Those nice shiny Miniés are averaging .584 diameter and won't enter the muzzle of the gun. I slugged the bore and get something around .581 (it's hard getting a precise reading on the slug with five lands and grooves).


    As I understand it, for a gun like this I want the Miniés to be about .002 under bore size. If that's correct, .579 would be about right.

    A 37/64" drill bit is 0.5781 diameter. Would it be feasible to use a 1/2" Hex Nut, drilled out with a 37/64" bit to make a sizing die for those bullets, and use my bench top drill press as a press to push the bullets through the die?

  2. #2
    Fred Jr is offline
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    Sure won't hurt to try. I use an RCBS mold and only need to size about a thousandth off them. I know you can size more than that and not damage the bullet. One thing that is very important with minnies is to make sure you have pure lead. You should have a push rod that fits into the cavity and doesn't damage it. Hope that helps some. My Enfield has a custom barrel but when I used a PH 1853 with the PH barrel it really liked a heavy bullet with a shallow base. I don't bother to weigh my bullets. Did a few times and I didn't think it made any difference! maybe I'm just lazy!

    Good luck and enjoy

    Fred
    Last edited by Fred Jr; 02-14-2016 at 11:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Semisane is offline
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    Thanks for the reply Fred. They're cast from really nice soft lead from recovered roof jacks. And I can make a push rod to fit the cavity with no problem.

    The cavity is 5/16" deep and the skirt looks pretty thick to me. But I really know little to nothing about Minies. Is that deeper than I want? I can change the profile of the base plug in the mold if I have to.



    Assuming I end up with a bullet well suited to the gun, what kind of 100/200 yard accuracy should I expect with a gun like this. I'm used to 2.5" 100 yard groups with my .58 Hawken with a Green Mountain barrel and peep sights.
    Last edited by Semisane; 02-15-2016 at 12:21 AM.

  4. #4
    ian45662 is offline
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    Lodgewood can sell you a sizing die to make them smaller

  5. #5
    Lou Lou Lou is offline
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    You might want to consider turning a new base plug to make the skirt thinner. We have a member in LA who is knowlegable. Don't know if he is close to you
    Lou Lou Lou Ruggiero
    Tammany Regt-42nd NYVI

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    Muley Gil is offline
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    Welcome to the BB. Generally, the Parker-Hale series have .577 barrels, which is what the originals had. I have a 1853 (3 bander), a 1858 (2 bander) and a 1861 (musketoon). I used Minies sized to .576 in both the 2 bander and the musketoon. Haven't fired the 3 bander yet.

    Many rifle muskets are capable of 2.5"-3" groups at 100 yards. I wish I was still able to shoot that tight.
    Gil Davis Tercenio
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    Great, great grandson of Cpl Elijah S Davis, Co I, 6th Alabama Inf CSA

  7. #7
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    IMHO, I wouldn't worry about the base plug yet. Shoot it first, as the skirt doesn't look too thick to me, it might work just fine. If the skirt is too thin it can blow out as it exits the muzzle when using heavier than target loads, such as for hunting.

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    I have been told that the fast twist of the P1858 makes it like heavy bullets. My own experience in trying to get my Pedersoli P1858 to group has corroborated that claim.

    I tried to use the RCBS-Hodgdon bullet in it, which I use in competition with my other rifled guns, but it keyholed.

    But using the RCBS-500M sized to .578 using 60 grains of 2F Goex, I have a target in front of me with 5 shots in a clover-leaf arrangement at 50 yards off of a bench.

    I believe a stout charge was needed because the RCBS-500M has a thick skirt.

    The Lyman 575213PH is supposed to be ideal for the Parker Hale. It has a truncated cone base plug which results in a heavier bullet than with the full-cone cavity. I bought one, but it did not drop at a large enough size for sizing to .578. I bought a 575213OS mold and had a custom core pin made for it to give me the truncated cone with more weight, plus a thinner skirt. Initial tests seem promising.

    I do my sizing using a Lyman Lubrsizer and dies from S&S firearms. For a lower-cost option, Lodgewood and others make a push-through sizer that you can chuck up in a bench vice and push the bullet through using a wooden dowel.

    Steve

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    CAGerringer is offline
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    Sizing issues...

    Mr. S,
    Try the 579 or 580 sized Minie's and you will find you do much better. Work up and down from 42 grains of 3 F powder loads...and you will do better, still. It's all a matter of working out the combo that's best for your gum. Start with getting the bullet as tight as it can be...and then figure out what powder measurement will work best. Believe it or not, every gun is different. This is the easiest and most direct way of figuring out what load is good for you. It's not Rocket Science.
    Respectfully, Charlie
    C.A. Gerringer
    Old Dominion Dragoons

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    Jim Barber is offline
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    Mike Rouch sells some pretty sweet titanium sizing dies, reasonably priced. You can drop him at line at miamivsutler(at)aol.com

    Cheers
    Jim B.
    Grove City OH

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