Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Front sight question

  1. #1
    Moses Milner is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    75
    Region:
    Visitor

    Front sight question

    Hello all--This may be a rather ignorant question, and possibly has been answered here before. If so, accept my apologies.
    I've seen muskets listed on the Wanted/For Sale forum with "Tall shooter's front sights." My question is this: How are these sights more advantageous over the arsenal, or stock, front sights? If the guns are replicas of the originals, weren't the original specs for the front sights adequate? Wouldn't a taller sight depress the muzzle and make it shoot lower?
    Like I said, an ignorant question perhaps, but an answer would be appreciated.
    Thanks.
    MM

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    96
    Region:
    Chesapeake - Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio

    tall sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses Milner View Post
    Hello all--This may be a rather ignorant question, and possibly has been answered here before. If so, accept my apologies.
    I've seen muskets listed on the Wanted/For Sale forum with "Tall shooter's front sights." My question is this: How are these sights more advantageous over the arsenal, or stock, front sights? If the guns are replicas of the originals, weren't the original specs for the front sights adequate? Wouldn't a taller sight depress the muzzle and make it shoot lower?
    Like I said, an ignorant question perhaps, but an answer would be appreciated.
    Thanks.
    MM
    Usually the stock sights shoot high out of the box. A tall sight lets you file it down and "dial in" the rifle for target shooting. So to answer your question, no arsenal sights are not adequate for target shooting/

    Scott 1st Maine

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Sherman's Kitchen, GA
    Posts
    980
    Region:
    Deep South - Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas
    Many Civil War soldiers never learned to sight in their muskets or hit what they were shooting at, either because they didn't live long enough on the battlefield, or their units simply didn't have enough ammunition to spare to determine where their muskets struck a target. They spent more time learning to drill on the parade field, and learning to follow orders, than in spending time shooting their long arms. The latter was a problem that plagued the Army later in the century up until after the war with Spain when troops like the 8th Massachusetts arrived in Cuba with newly issued rifles they had never shot.

    Sure, many of the replica arms shoot high out of the box, but a certain number also shoot dead on, and some even shoot low. It really takes a good eye to pull one out of a box and shoot dead-on with it. Those that have already been modified for precision target shooting will simply save you time in getting up to speed on the firing line because someone else has already done most of the work for you. Very few of the replicas are exact replicas, and most all of the production arms are not exact replicas nor do they perform out of the box like the real thing. In fact, for the better part of 20 years, I competed with an original Pattern 1860 Enfield rifle because it just shot practically one ragged hole up to 100 yards. I only retired it because I acquired a custom made Model 1855 Rifle that shoots much the same. The P/60 Enfield rifle had standard issue sights.
    First Cousin (7 times removed) to Brigadier General Stand Watie (1806-1871), CSA
    1st Cherokee Mounted Rifles | Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation 1862-66

  4. #4
    Moses Milner is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    75
    Region:
    Visitor
    Quote Originally Posted by SHARPS4953 View Post
    Usually the stock sights shoot high out of the box. A tall sight lets you file it down and "dial in" the rifle for target shooting. So to answer your question, no arsenal sights are not adequate for target shooting/

    Scott 1st Maine
    Thanks Scott.
    Now, given the variety of minie sizes, shapes, weights, etc, is there a rule of thumb to follow when "dialing it in"? With round ball for example, old rule of thumb is to start with ball .010 smaller than nominal bore size, corresponding patch thickness, and powder charge of same weight as rifle caliber, and start at about 50 yards. Modify your loads from there. (Yes, I know that there will be those who disagree with that, but it has always worked for me in over 50 yrs of round ball muzzleloading.) Is there something comparable with rifle muskets other than just blind trial and error? What have you experienced guys done?
    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Rock Hill, South Carolina
    Posts
    1,044
    Region:
    Carolina - North Carolina and South Carolina
    Good place to start with a Minie is 0.001 smaller than the bore of the gun. ~40g 3Ffg powder. Move up and down in 1 grain increments until you find the best group.

    BTW: You need to measure the actual bore of the gun ( with a plug gauge), NOT go by what is written/stamped on the barrel...
    Mike 'Bootsie' Bodner
    Palmetto Sharpshooter's, Commander
    9996V

  6. #6
    Curt's Avatar
    Curt is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    260
    Region:
    Midwest - Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana
    Hallo!

    Not a rule, but...

    Often, typically, rear sights are graduated between "long range" rear sights and "short range" rear sights. LR's may be graduated with a ladder type piece in 100 yard/meter/Schritt increments out to 900-1000. SR may be graduated with leaves, say three choices of 100, 300, 500 yards.

    The front sight height is set accordingly.

    So, typically the shortest distance that can be sighted is 100 "yards." In the N-SSA 50 yard events are popular so the front (and/or rear sight) has to be compensated. Most time the rear sight cannot be (easily or at all) lowered enough or any, so the front sight has to be raised to go from 100 to 50 yards

    Curt
    Curt Schmidt
    Formerly 17 years a Sherman's Bodyguard
    Married to a descendant of Senator John Sherman's wife

  7. #7
    Muley Gil is offline
    Team:
    34th Battalion Virginia Cavalry
    Member
    3020V
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southwest Virginia
    Posts
    1,676
    Region:
    New England - New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and Massachusetts
    Another issue is that the sights were based on a standard load of the day-usually 60 grains of "musket" powder (about FFg) under a 460-510 grain Minie bullet.

    Since your typical skirmisher uses a much lighter powder charge (40-50 grains) and ofttimes a lighter or heavier bullet, the sights have to be adjusted to compensate.
    Gil Davis Tercenio
    # 3020V
    34th Battalion, Virginia Cavalry
    Great, great grandson of Cpl Elijah S Davis, Co I, 6th Alabama Inf CSA

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    96
    Region:
    Chesapeake - Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio

    sight

    My 1st rifled musket was a mid 1980's Dixie gunworks 63 springfield kit. Benching it would yield 10x's all day long but only with 100 grains of powder. The 2 piece stock would separate after every shot and I would go home with a bruised shoulder. I never had to touch the stock front sight at all.

    Scott
    1st Maine

  9. #9
    Moses Milner is offline
    Team:
    Visitor (non-N-SSA Member)
    Member
    NA
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    75
    Region:
    Visitor

    Thanks

    Thanks to all who replied, Scott, Richard, Mike, Curt, Gil. You all answered my questions. What I'm hearing is that loads with muskets --as with most ML --can and probably do, vary widely with each individual musket: 40 - 100 gr of powder. Seems like it could be even more complex, given the variety of bullet shapes, sizes, and weights. Do most of you begin with a certain bullet: wadcutter, Old style minie, something else?
    Thanks again.
    MM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Rock Hill, South Carolina
    Posts
    1,044
    Region:
    Carolina - North Carolina and South Carolina
    In general, it's really not too complicated. Although there are many fringe conditions, in general you want the 0.001 under-bore size bullet. A Hodgdon bullet is an excellent choice. But so is a semi-wad cutter as is the full-sized Minie. All can work in your gun. Some might produce tighter groups, however.

    If you want to hit the X ring each shot, then you have to perfectly fine tune the bullet type, lube, powder type (and manufacture) and caps (Manufacturer). But if you want to hit inside the black scoring rings, then you can start with a single bullet type, powder type, and cap type, and simply adjust the amount of powder (starting at 40g) and see how tight the group gets. If it's acceptable to you, stop there. If you want more, then you try a different bullet, etc. and try again to see if you get your desired results.

    The whole issue about the tall front sight is based on the fact that the original war-purpose guns were expected to be fired at 200+ yards, not at 50-yds. Hence the sights were set up for that sort of distance (and with a hefty powder charge).

    For N-SSA target competitions, we greatly reduce the charge (only punching through paper) and that in combination with the shorter distance means we have to move the sights a lot. Since its almost impossible to reduce the height of the rear sight, we increase the height of the front site. Hence the comments you see!!

    It definitely ain't Rocket Surgery....

    -Mike
    Mike 'Bootsie' Bodner
    Palmetto Sharpshooter's, Commander
    9996V

Similar Threads

  1. Front sight question original model 1842
    By Fauch125 in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-30-2013, 08:09 PM
  2. New Front sight for the Sharps
    By johnefelts in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-02-2013, 06:33 PM
  3. Sight drilling and improved front sight question.
    By gunhawk in forum Shooting Techs, Tips, & Tricks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-25-2011, 09:35 PM
  4. Front sight help
    By Oregon Bill in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-13-2009, 10:51 PM
  5. front sight ?
    By OLD CHIEF in forum Small Arms
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-24-2008, 01:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •