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Thread: Sighted Smoothbores should be in their own class.

  1. #1
    MR. GADGET's Avatar
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    Sighted Smoothbores should be in their own class.

    We should break out sighted smoothbore into its own class.
    There is no reason that we should not do this.

    The sighted in most cases are built up guns. People are building them up to shoot at the cost of changing a gun that has a lot of history just to get a better score.

    #1 rule in smoothbore is you can not do anything to the sights, yet when the build them up they add a new barrel and rear sughts in a lot of cases.

    Just me but if we have a class type gun but yet two complete different types, sighted and not then it is time to change the system.
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  2. #2
    jonk is offline
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    While there is some merit in what you say a few thoughts.

    First, if I recall correctly, it's no longer permitted to modify 1816 non sighted guns, so the BOD has that under control.
    Second, while agreeing with the spirit of what you say, that path leads to fractionation and madness. Suddenly flintlock SBs would be in their own category. Suddenly carbines and muskets with fixed sights (I.e. Kentucky style) would be on their own. Misssissippis with Benton sights would be on their own. Where does it end?

    I'm not trying to be contrarian, because as I say part of me agrees with you. I'm just saying that unless we are willing to consider other similar group changes, it could set a certain precedent. And, this subject has been discussed many times.

  3. #3
    MR. GADGET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonk View Post
    While there is some merit in what you say a few thoughts.

    First, if I recall correctly, it's no longer permitted to modify 1816 non sighted guns, so the BOD has that under control.
    Second, while agreeing with the spirit of what you say, that path leads to fractionation and madness. Suddenly flintlock.
    That would be wrong from what I remember.
    it did not pass.

    Too much fight from those that are building them.
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  4. #4
    MR. GADGET's Avatar
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    And for the naysayers. ..

    There is a difference in sighted and unsighted SB.

    My test was to shoot a normal repop have a non SB shooter shoot it.
    Then glue a rear sight on the gun with superglue and both shot.

    The ones with the sight were shot for group only as it was not tuned and zeroed.
    The groups using a rear sight were a lot tighter and also made a big difference to someone that does not normal shoot a Non sighted gun.
    You could overlay the target unsighted with the sighted and big difference.
    Same load, same day, same gun, same 2 shooters.

    Rear sight does make a difference. hard to fight the facts.
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  5. #5
    John Holland is offline Moderator
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    As of the August 2013 Board of Directors Meeting it was agreed that the N-SSA will no longer accept or condone the wholesale destruction of original cone-in-barrel muskets to be made into sighted H&P type muskets.

    John Holland
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    Small Arms Committee
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    MR. GADGET's Avatar
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    10-4 that is good to hear.

    I thought that was.voted down, I know there was a big stink about it and the write up in the S-line.

    Thanks
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    I think the big question is whether or not to permit sighted smoothbores at all.
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    Harry,

    Here's what I think, and first off - thanks for asking:

    There's far too much effort which has been expended on adding more classifications/arms. It reminds me of what I see in public schools where additional classes/courses/programs/sports teams have to be implemented so ALL of the students can have a warm and fuzzy sense of "inclusiveness"...

    Some folks opt to shoot muzzle stuffer carbines for individuals, as they feel that they're much more "competitive" in that venue, vice those carbines which break in half. As such, for individuals they'll use a Richmond, but when it's time to "run sprints" for team matches, they use the best carbine ever fielded - a Maynard (original Model 1)...

    Should we then offer a separate categories for breach and muzzle loading carbines?

    We've already added more to an already crammed program with muzzle loading pistols (eye roll)... Now you're suggesting another DSCA, and individual event/category???

    I hate to come off like a despicable "boo bird", but I don't see the benefit from separating apples from apples.

    I've used both rear sighted and non-rear sighted SB's. My Cadet just didn't deliver the goods for me, so I sold her to a very good friend who IS now routinely winning Individual SB medals. I'm jealous, but also VERY happy to see him, and my former piece, doing so well on the firing line. Yes, I've opted for an original H&P for various reasons, but my former friend and his Cadet is now a very serious contender on the line.

    Using your metaphor, if folks want to bring a knife to a gun fight, it' a free country - let 'em. But I've served with folks who were VERY skilled with a blade and watched first hand how they could take it to anyone, even a gun slinger (I'm glad they were on our side).

    Let's stay away from "slippery slopes" and get back to sticking with musket, carbine, revolver. Doing that will free up a ton of time, and who knows folks may use the time to socialize and re-invigorate the "party" atmosphere which used to be a real enticement to our sport.

    Instead - let us focus on recruiting young members. THAT is much more important than another skirmish medal opportunity.

    That's my two cents. Thanks again!




    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Gaul View Post
    Hey another convert! I have written on this thread on more than one occasion questioning the fairness of the Sighted smoothbore vs non sighted smoothbore. There are arguments to support both cases. In another thread there is a skirmisher pursuing the possibility for Pedersoli to put a rear sight on a perfectly good 1816 repro and make another H and P conversion. Why would anyone want to put a rear sight on a perfectly good, repro non sighted smoothbore? According to many skirmishers, all you have to do is practice more. Many skirmishers feel that if I DO MY PART, and the non sighted smoothbore will win medals.

    As a compromise, keep the sighted and non sighted together for team competition, and the teams will find there level of proficiency in the different classes based on the skill of the skirmisher.

    I am hoping that the Association takes steps to separate the non sighted from the sighted smoothbore for Individual medal competition.

    Take a moment and look at the scores from the Spring Nationals in 25 and 50 yard smoothbore medal competition. What do you think?

    I have taken a knife to a gun fight, and I did not do too well.

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    Eggman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR. GADGET View Post
    Rear sight does make a difference. hard to fight the facts.
    Really "result" might be better than "facts."Good test. But good scientific data needs repeatability. Do it again - different shooters. Then again. Some other facts:

    I recall my experience with Lani Harrison at Eva a couple years back. Twenty something (I counted 23) consecutive hits with an original rearsightless '42. He rakes in the individuals also. This is recapped in the Jan "Muzzle Blasts."

    So I bought a rearsightless Armi Sport '42. After getting acclimized at a few regionals went 12 for 17 (71%) at the last national including 8 fer 8 the first two events. Get your load configuration and sight picture right. I'm not known for my shooting prowess but the gun provides all the performance I could ask for.

    Leave things as they are. It is unsurpassedly joyful to outshoot the rearsighted person next to you.
    Last edited by Eggman; 06-14-2015 at 06:45 PM.

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    MR. GADGET's Avatar
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    Keep drinking the coolaid...

    Sighted and unsighted guns are different.
    I can shoot both good and does not come down to that.

    comes down to new shooters being able to shoot sighted and pick up on it easier.
    It also comes down to the advantage of having sights.

    If not they would not have the rule in there stopping us from doing anything with sights.

    Mine does not have a sight and I will get 6 or more targets a relay when Im on.

    And for those thwt say do away with SB. Do it, see what that gets you.
    I would bet you will see the membership drop fast... Faster then it does now do to the old birds being afraid to change.
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