1853 Pattern Enfield musket made in Nepal

[navalofficer08]

I once heard most Enfields used in civil war were type 3 and wonder if these 1853 coming out of the Nepal find which I think are type 2 can be shot in the NSSA the only major difference I can see is barrel bands

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

I have seen a few of these and doubt you would want to skirmish with or even shoot them. I think the are locally made too not English. The Sniders are Khyber Pass guns too. I think all of the 577-450 Martini's are English and some in very good condition. There seems to be a batch of 303 Martini's on the market now that appear to be cobbled together in India or Pak. just for the American market and are pretty poor. They have bright blue and are marked on the wrong side of the reciever with bogus dates that don't match Queen Victoria's reign. Check the message board on the British Militaria Forum. Lot's of knowledge there on these guns.

Jim Brady
2249V
Knap's Battery

[navalofficer08]

I am not telling anyone to shoot one; however the Nepal sniders can be OK the Sniders and the 1853 Muskets were not bad quality in their day ; they certainly saw much service in the empire and saw service for many years; I don't think their metal is up to B 'ham steel. I would certainly proof test one in an old tire if I decided to shoot it. I read or heard somewhere that they used English dies and specs anyway I shoot my Snider without any difficulty. I read some of the Nepal Sniders have enlarged chambers; the one I have is fine. I was wondering about having Mr Hoyt reline a barrel and shooting one; I have taken two 1853 apart and found them to be in fair to good shape; one had a great bore but when I slugged the barrel found around bands the barrel had buldged and at muzzle end it was about a 572 the last one appears to be 577 with a pitted bore

[Mike w/ 34th]

Craig,

I think if you had Bob Hoyt reline the barrel, the rest of the gun should hold up about as well as any other repro. However, the stocks of the Nepal-made guns are much softer wood, which is why so many of them rotted away in storage. I think Atlanta Cutlery is supplying these with repro wood now.

Cheers,

Mike

[R. Knack]

I bought one of these back in April from International Military Antiques. They are pretty typical type II P1853's, which (in England) were made from 1855-1857. A few were made by Robbins & Lawrence in Windsor, VT as part of a Crimean War contract, but the war ended before all the guns were delivered and was a big part of why R & L went under as a company. There are existing period photographs of type II's in the hands of both Federal and Confederate soldiers, though of course they weren't as common as the type III's.

I pulled the breechplug off my Enfield, and found that although the first 6 inches of the breech were heavily pitted, the rifling went all the way to the breech and towards the muzzle the bore is in good enough shape that you can still see machine marks in the metal. I replaced the nipple and rear barrel band spring and ramrod (the original was bent beyond reasonable straightening, but Atlanta Cutlery had replacements), and all the wood screws. The gun was safely test-fired with up to 90 grains FFg American Pioneer Powder (blackpowder isn't available where I live, or anywhere within several hundred miles) and a 500-grain Minie ball. Firing was by "redneck remote control", i.e. string on the trigger.

I sent it to Todd Watts at the Blockade Runner. He removed all the Gurkha markings and re-worked it to look like an early Birmingham gun, with "TOWER" and a date of 1857 on the lockplate. Since the bore was more like .58 caliber rather than .577, he put "24" gauge markings on the barrel. The number "4_24" had originally been marked on the stock, lockplare, and triggerguard rear tang in Gurkha script. Todd re-stamped it in "English" numbers on the left side of the stock, as he had seen similar numerical configurations on original British Enfields. It was likely a rack number. The Gurkha range markings on the rear sight were replaced by English numbers. As a crowning touch, he also stamped the name of stockmaker Joseph Wilson on the underside of the butt. He also properly fitted a "defarbed" repro bayonet to the gun. All told, I have as much into the gun (including initial purchase price) as I would have into a brand-new, NON-defarbed Italian replica.

The gun doesn't look like a brand-new, fresh-from-the-factory gun; nor does it look like the dirty,rusty, crusty relic I started with. Rather, it looks like what the Union purchasing agents would have likely gotten early in the war - a used, but serviceable, surplus gun in a slightly obsolete pattern. Now all I need to do is find a load that shoots reasonably accurately!

[R. McAuley 3014V]

CENSORED

[Southron Sr.]

I wrote a paper on an incident that involved (if I recall correctly) 600 Type II Enfields that were purchased by an agent (acting for a "front company" for the State of Georgia in 1861.

These Type II Enfields were made by Robbins & Lawrence (surplus from their British contract) and were sent down to the docks in New York to be loaded aboard a schooner bound for Savannah.

When it was discovered that Enfields for Georgia were about to be loaded on the schooner, a mob gathered and went down to the docks. To make a long story short, the New York police arrived and seized the entire shipment as there was a lot of anti-Southern sentiment in the town at the time.

Governor Brown of Georgia demanded that the shipment be released, and when it was not done-Brown seized several ships in port in Savannah Harbor that belonged to New York owners. Brown announced unless the rifles were released, he would have the ships sold at public auction to re-pay the "front company" that had purchased the Enfields for the state.

For a while there, it looked like Georgia and New York were going to war BEFORE the Union and Confederacy would!

New York officials backed down and the Enfields were released and then shipped to Georgia, where they were promptly issued to Georgia troops. SO TYPE II ENFIELDS (THAT IS WHAT THOSE RIFLES WERE) WERE USED DURING THE WAR!

After the Enfields were released, Gov. Brown released the ships.

Interestingly enough, Governor Brown was very "possessive" when it came to state owned arms.

When a company of the Oglethorpe Light Infantry (later part of the 8th Georgia) left the state for Virginia before 1st Bull Run in 1861, they carried with them their state issued muskets.

When Brown found out he sent several letters to the commander of the OLI, Francis Bartow, DEMANDING that the state owned rifles be returned to the state. What followed was a series of rather "hot" letters between the Governor and Bartow-Bartow refused to return the rifles.

To make a 'long story short' Bartow was promoted to General and had the misfortune to be killed at 1st Bull Run. Brown was never able to re-possess the rifles from the OLI!