spare revolver cylinders

[RSiegel]

I'm currently reading the book "The Cavalry at Gettysburg" by Edward Longacre and in describing, on page 59, the equipment carried by Union cavalrymen, he states that the average trooper carried a saber, a carbine and "one or two revolvers with removable, preloaded cylinders". Is this a verified fact? I thought this was just in the movies.

Rich

[Mike McDaniel]

I think it's pure Hollywood Hokum. Never heard of it in wartime accounts. And it's worth noting two things:

First, revolver cylinders were often serial numbered to the gun. Only one cylinder per gun.

Second, Colt cased sets did not include a spare cylinder...and if they didn't, you can bet that the average issue sidearm didn't, either.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

The quote from Longacre's book is a bit confusing. The predominant revolvers of the war were the Colt and Remington and you certainly could remove the cylinders on both of them. I can't imagine soldiers riding around with their revolvers in their holsters and with the loaded cylinders elsewhere. Both revolvers were designed to be loaded with the cylinder in place using paper cartridges. and I would expect that was the norm. I would imagine that the only time that the cylinder was removed was for cleaning. Revolvers were kept loaded and capped with the cylinder rotated so that a cap was not under the hammer. I agree with Mike, no one was issued extra cylinders, only one per revolver.

[Curt]

Hallo!

It would appear as though the author has not done his research, or worse yet done it at what the Civil War Community calls Farb or lower level Mainstream reenactments.
Although rare even at more historically-challenged events, the practice of a spare loaded cylinder is a "reenactorism."
Especially when reenactors fail to understand that revolver ammunition was typically factory or arsenal made paper or foil-type commercial conical ball cartridges that came in packets typically with drilled out wooden blocks to protect them.. and not loose powder in a flask and a handful or cast round balls.

Much of the preloaded cylinders fantasy/notion comes out of Clint Eastwood in the 1985 "Pale Rider" with his belt of holstered cylinders for his Remington revolver. Or incorrect on-line resources such as this quote:

"Typically, soldiers armed with revolvers carried several pre-loaded cylinders so that they could replace their spent cylinder with one that was ready to fire."

Were spare loaded cylinders true, on would expect to find them in Research and Documentation. They are NOT found in ANY:

1. Primary reports, descriptions, accounts, diaries, or letters home.
2. Any CW Period cavalry manual that while usually describing anything and everything never mention spare cylinders or how to use them.
3. Period images of cavalrymen with them.
4. Manufacturer records and contract terms for arms plus parts. (For example, Colt supplied smallish "X" number of certain spare parts for armorer-type "field' repairs.)
5. Unit inspections and inventories of firearms, accoutrements, and equipment on hand and present.
6. Issuance receipts/records
7. Arms requisition papers.

One exception, but not Federal, is that some more "irregular' cavalry units such as Mosby's or Quantrill's either for the romantic image or truly for the added sustained firepower, are documented for sometimes having more than one revolver on their person or horse. But, they appear not have bothered with swapping cylinders.

Curt

PS

Some more "legitimate" but still wrong opinions pop up with the Remington cylinder arbor and loading lever changes between misinterpreted as to facilitate swapping cylinders. One of the complaints against Colt revolvers was the barrel attachment 'wedge" that was "easily' lost by the soldier while cleaning, and why Colt added somewhat of a retaining screw safety catch of sorts. Colt did not fix that until 1871. ;)

Beal's 1858 revolver had a cylinder that was removed by having to lower the loading lever and then taking the arbor or shaft completely out.

Elliot at Remington designed a change for that weakness that went into the Remington M1861 Army and Navy. Elliot's idea allowed the cylinder arbor to come out without having to lower the loading lever (ramrod). Obviously this did not solve the problem of dropped and lost cylinder arbors, so Remington changed it for their M1863 NM Army and Navy (incorrectly Hobby termed the "M1858 Remington") so that when in its normal position that the cylinder arbor can pulled to free the cylinder without it having to come all the way out or off/loose.)

[jonk]

The way I see this is, it's possible, even likely that at some point, some soldier on his own choice did this. But think about it; what's more useful, a second whole loaded revolver (picked up on the battlefield or a personal purchase) or just a loaded cylinder? If you were going to carry anything, it would be the whole thing.

Besides which, as pointed out already, depending on the gun, freeing the cylinder could be anything from 'a little effort' to 'major PITA'. In fact, I'd wager if I had premade paper cartridge, I could load them in about as fast as it would take to swap cylinders.

However, based on your quote, the author isn't absolutely wrong. You said: and "one or two revolvers with removable, preloaded cylinders".
1. Cavalrymen often did have revolvers.
2. The cylinders are removable.
3. They were preloaded going into battle.

Unless he specifically says 'one or more CYLINDERS for swapping out with empties,' he's technically correct, if unnecessarily misleading.

[Dave Fox]

Early Colt Patterson arms were sometimes offered with a spare cylinder. I recall from the 1950s a Patterson revolving rifle with a spare cylinder with leather waist belt and fitted cylinder pouch. Truly in 55 years of research and collecting I've never otherwise heard of use of spare cylinders, tho' some very few civilian transitional weapons were fitted with a percussion and an interchangable metallic cartridge cylinder.
Think about it: swapping cylinders would involve, having disabling an otherwise useful donor revolver (likely belonging to a jealous government), whilst on a fractious horse and in the heat of combat, juggling a revolver, separate barrel assembly (or arbour), and two cylinders, all the while keeping the critter pointed in the right direction and just staying on it. If one had the leisure to do all that and in the correct order, reloading the weapon conventionally wouldn't have been that much more complex.

[Muley Gil]

Kin you imagine dropping a pre-loaded, pre-capped cylinder?

[Maillemaker]

Besides which, as pointed out already, depending on the gun, freeing the cylinder could be anything from 'a little effort' to 'major PITA'. In fact, I'd wager if I had premade paper cartridge, I could load them in about as fast as it would take to swap cylinders.

I'm pretty sure you could swap out a cylinder in a Remington faster than loading and capping it. But odds are they still did not do it.


Kin you imagine dropping a pre-loaded, pre-capped cylinder?

This is what I was thinking. Even if you had pre-loaded cylinders, it would be awfully risky to keep them capped. And if you aren't going to keep them capped, what would be the advantage anyway if you have to swap the cylinder and then try to fiddle out 5 or 6 pistol caps and get them in position in the supposed heat of battle? I can hardly do it at the firing line. :)

Steve

[John Holland]

If I recall correctly, the only real documented use of a second cylinder was by the Pony Express. This was done to have extra shots available without adding the weight of a second revolver. The second cylinder was not meant to be changed while traveling on horseback, but rather at a way station if necessary.

JDH

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Colonel Jack Coffee Hays and his Second Texas Regiment of Texas Rangers (having been federalized as part of the U.S. Army) arrived at Vera Cruz on October 17, 1847. Just two days later the first consignment of 394 of the 1,000 Colt Walker “six-shooter” revolvers as had been ordered were delivered at Vera Cruz and issued to the Rangers. Another 180 revolvers were issued to Captain Walker’s company (Company C), and more than a month had passed before a second consignment of 500 revolvers arrived and were issued. Initial planning called for the issue of two pistols to each mounted soldier, along with a single powder flask, bullet mould, and a combination tool for disassembly and cleaning. These were typically stored in pommel holsters mounted either side of the saddle pommel for ease of access and weather protection.

Many of the Walker Colt revolvers were subsequently lost in service, and in one single battle in which Truitt’s company lost some ten revolvers—the battle of Sequalteplan (now Zacualtipan) was situated about 75 miles northeast of Mexico City in the mountains (in the State of Hidalgo) was a battle that lasted barely ten minutes! Recently a Walker Colt revolver that had been carried by a Private Sam Wilson of Company D was sold at auction for US$920,000. Of the 976 revolvers issued to the five companies of Hayes’ Texas Rangers, at war’s end we know of only 409 that were returned to the government, nearly 300 of which were returned for repairs due to a ruptured cylinder. Of the 220 issued to Company A, only 39 are known to survive, together with 27 of the 204 issued to Company B, 37 of the 219 issued to Company C, 26 of the 218 issued to Company D, and 18 of the 115 issued to Truitt’s Company E. Of some 1091 sold in private sales to civilians only 16 are known to have survived.

Unlike the records of the Civil War, not only do we know for a fact just who was issued these revolvers we also know who lost them and how many were lost, as well as how many exploded in use. In Truitt’s company, we know the following named individuals lost one or more of their revolvers:

Pvt. James Chandler (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter at battle of Sequalteplan, Feb 25, 1848;

Pvt. Cleveland Coffee (C. Ashton’s Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter, cost $30;

Pvt. Asa Dial (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter;

Pvt. William Fields (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter at Sequalteplan;

Pvt. James Hall (Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter;

Pvt. William Hammock (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter at Sequalteplan;

Pvt. Prince B. Hawes (Ashton’s Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter (died at Mexico City, Dec 15, 1847);

Pvt. Dennis Hays (C. Ashton’s Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter, cost $30;

Pvt. Oliver Lathrop (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter and 1 rifle (died at Mexico City, Apr 8, 1848);

Pvt. Hezekiah McKelvy (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost three pistols with holsters and housings;

Pvt. R. W. McMullen (Handley’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter;

Pvt. Nathan B. Phillips (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost two six-shooters at Sequalteplan;

Pvt. John Powers (Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter;

Pvt; John Roberts (Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter;

Pvt. Felix Scott (Handley’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter;

3rd Corporal Jacob Sessum (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost two six-shooters;

Pvt. William H. Smith (C. Ashton’s Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter, $30;

Pvt. Irvin Stanfield (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter, $30;

1 Lt Amos Strickland (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), two six-shooters unavoidably exploded (resigned Nov 30, 1847 at Jalapa, Mexico);

Pvt. Andrew Stumpf (C. Ashton’s Co E, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter;

1st Corporal James Thomas (Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost two six-shooters, $30 each and accoutrements (died Dec 8, 1847 at Puebla, Mexico);

Major Alfred M. Truitt (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost two six-shooters in skirmish with guerillas, March 1847 (elected Major of the Regiment, Oct 26, 1847);

Pvt. Andrew Jackson Truitt (A.M. Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost one six-shooter at Sequalteplan;

2nd Lt Thomas F. Tucker (Truitt’s Co, Second Texas), lost two six-shooters at Sequalteplan.

Andrew Jackson Truitt (1819-1874) was younger brother of Major Alfred Marion Truitt (1817-1864), the regimental Quartermaster of Hays’ Second Regiment, and Major Truitt was subsequently elected in 1861 as the Quartermaster of the 28th Texas Cavalry, C.S.A. and afterwards served as Quartermaster General for the State of Texas, 1864. The Truitts were my great-great-grandfather’s nephews.

[Carolina Reb]

I can maybe see swapping cylinders in battle with a Remington, when dismounted. But.... Have you ever tried to swap cylinders while mounted? Generally, when you run out of revolver shots there is a lot of confusion all around, and the last thing you want to do is rein up and start fooling with your revolver. First of all, you need two hands to swap a cylinder and one is already taken with the reins. Second, you are sitting duck if you are standing still looking in your lap instead of at what's going on around you. Third, your horse is just as excited as you are, which doesn't make for a very steady work platform. I tried it once at a drill and would NEVER want to do it in battle. Bill Anderson had the right idea, bring lots of revolvers!

[Don Dixon]

This question comes up periodically on a variety of historical forums. Carrying a loaded, capped Remington or Colt revolver cylinder separate from the frame is so egregiously stupid that you don't even want to think about it, no matter what the script writer had Clint Eastwood do. People at the time didn't carry spare cylinders, they carried spare revolvers. There are good historical accounts of Confederate irregulars -- Mosby's people, for example -- carrying four or five. If carrying a spare cylinder for reloads was safe, the contemporary manufacturers would have sold them with their guns. They didn't. The "bible" for Civil War arms purchases is Executive Document 99, 2nd Session, 40th Congress (14 January 1868). In Ex Doc 99, the President transmitted a War Department report to Congress on the War Department's purchases of arms during the Civil War. There is nothing in the report to indicate the the Federal Army purchased Colt's or Remington revolvers with spare cylinders. One can't say that a few individuals didn't have spare cylinders fitted and carry them on their own (getting back to my egregiously stupid comment), but it wasn't institutionalized as the author implies.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Chris Sweeney]

Please reread the quote:
It says "one or two revolvers . . ." not one or two cylinders. I believe folks might be reading more into it than was ever intended

[Curt]

Hallo!

"I'm currently reading the book "The Cavalry at Gettysburg" by Edward Longacre and in describing, on page 59, the equipment carried by Union cavalrymen, he states that the average trooper carried a saber, a carbine and "one or two revolvers with removable, preloaded cylinders". Is this a verified fact? I thought this was just in the movies."

I grant, yes, it might be a matter of how one reads and operationalizes "...with removable, preloaded cylinders."

Most Period revolvers have removable cylinders for cleaning. and the gun is loaded by "preloading" its cylinder. But I read it, and interpret the context or meaning to be as removing a spent or empty cylinder and replacing it with a preloaded 'spare.' And not loading the revolver's one cylinder, in place, to load the revolver per Period manuals, etc., etc.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt