Colt spent cap modifications legal?

[hawkeye2]

Are any of the modifications to Colt type revolvers currently being done to prevent spent caps from jamming the action legal under N-SSA rules? These modifications include filling or eliminating the slot in the nose of the hammer that is meant to work with the safety pins between the nipples or drilling the frame and adding a vertical post that enters the notch in the nose of the hammer when the hammer is down to prevent a cap from being pulled back into the action. Can the spent cap grove in the right recoil shield be filled in?

I have a couple of Colts I would like to shoot in team matches but the caps locking up the cylinder or falling into the frame opening and locking up the action have kept me from doing so. I always swap out the nipples for new Treso which helps somewhat and use good fitting caps but the problem persists. Oh, the mainsprings are not weak either.

Thanks

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Hawkeye,

I shoot a '51 Colt Navy, but don't have any such modifications. The hammer has never presented a problem as far the safety notch. What does occur, and changing the hammer face would have no effect, is that the spent cap, or a major portion of the spent cap falls off the cone and goes down into the hammer pocket (between the cocked hammer and frame), which when the hammer falls on the next shot, the spent cap prevents the hammer from firing the next cap. I have had caps caught in this part of the action be compressed to the thickness of the metal and still be enough to prevent the next cap from being fired. This is best controlled by the shooter rather than some change to the hammer face. I don't know the actual percentage of skirmishers who shoot Colts vs Remingtons (or Rogers & Spencer), but Colts are generally at a distinct disadvantage by comparison because they lack a solid frame.

[hawkeye2]

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the half cock (safety) notch. That is for those reading this thread that may not be too familiar with Colts and their idiosyncrasies and so they din't get lead astray (happens to me all the time). Filling the notch in the face of the hammer with JB weld, welding up & dressing or milling off and welding a new face on sans notch does work according to the Cowboy Action Shooters (and others). It is felt the cap is caught in the notch by being blown back or pinched and then pulled off the nipple by the hammer if it is lifted slightly by blowback or when it is cocked again. Having the caps fall into the action is the biggest issue with Colts but secondary is the cap coming off the nipple and getting caught between the cylinder and the hammer opening or just getting bound up in the channel in the recoil shield. Another mod I have seen is to weld up the hammer opening in the frame, cut a smaller opening and then reduce the width of the hammer nose resulting in a configuration similar to the Remington. Some shooters claim that turning the pistol upside down or flicking it to the right when cocking solves the problem but it never seemed to help much to me.

[Maillemaker]

Usually, I can flick any cap pieces that have come loose free of the gun by doing the "Colt wave" and flicking the revolver to the right so that you are holding the gun horizontally while cocking. It's not foolproof though. Sometimes a piece of cap stays bound up around the nipple until it makes it to the perfect place to jump free and lock up the action.

Steve

[Curt]

Hallo!

A historical problem...

The SAC will speak on what is NSSA legal.

Historically, there was the "Kittredge Spring Plate Shield" invented by Benjamin Kittredge and covered by Patent Number 41,848 issued on March 8, 1864. There was not much interest in it, but it did appear on Type IV Manhattan revolvers:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Kettredgepatent_zps91765191.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Kettredgepatent_zps91765191.jpg.html)

What some CAS/SASS and other shooters have done is to:

1. Fill in the hammer nose notch with say epoxy and file smooth, or

2. Insert a "pin' under the hammer nose to block the cap or cap fragment from moving backwards and down into the base of the hammer jamming it:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Capshieldhomemademod_zps3ccf1a08.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Capshieldhomemademod_zps3ccf1a08.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Capshieldhomemade2_zps4a3a1e82.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Capshieldhomemade2_zps4a3a1e82.jpg.html)


Neither one of these modifications will prevent cap fragments from moving along the face of the recoil shield and jamming the action unless the recoil shield is milled out as in the above picture. That is what Kittredge tried to accomplish with his "shield" insert which blocks fragments from the left and "carries" them along with the rotation of the cylinder to the left-to-right... down a milled slot to exit on the right hand side of the recoil shield.
I wonder if the Kittredge design milled slot would work "most" of the time anyways without the flat 'shield' device on the left.

Kittredge shield appears only a limited number of Manhattan revolvers and not on as made and as issued Colt or Colt clone revolvers.

IMHO, neither the "CAS" type modern modifications or even the 1864/1865 Kittredge Patent shield should be allowed as the one is modern and the other is not PC unless shooting a Manhattan Type IV.

Curt

[hawkeye2]

Curt, thanks for posting the photos. I'm sure it helps clarify what I was talking about. I am aware of the Mahattan mod but didn't mention it as I have never heard of it being applied to a Colt. Preventing the fragmented cap from falling into the action and getting it past the right side of the hammer opening and into the channel would eliminate most of the problems but I still have had caps jam up the cylinder when they were in the channel. I have heard mention of filling the channel to eliminate that issue and I may try it with epoxy some day though it wouldn't be for N-SSA events. I believe that opening the channel by cutting off the top lip would be a big iprovment but it wouldn't be legal and certinaly wouldn't improve the revolver's looks. As far as not allowing the "CAS mods" because they aren't period, neither are the Remington cylinder mods to prevent fouling of the cylinder pin which are approved.

[John Holland]

To all:

These are questions that should be directed to the Inspector General and the N-SSA's Rules Committee. The Small Arms Committee only applies Rules as handed down to them.

Sincerely,
John Holland
Chairman, SAC