Anybody using a Benton Rear Sight?

[B-Davis]

After looking at the different models of Mississippi's, I am looking at building a .54 caliber Mississippi. I see that several members are using the Mounted Infantry Model, and I can see why, it is a magnificent rifle. With that being said though, is anybody out there using or know someone who uses a Mississippi with a Benton rear sight? Any thoughts or information about this rear sight? The biggest draw back that I can see it that the front sight is still the small brass blade. Any info. is greatly appreciated.
Bryan Davis

[John Holland]

Bryan -

The Benton Screw Sight was one of the first long range adjustable rear sights that Harper's Ferry experimented with. It was found to be too fragile for field use and was rather quickly withdrawn from service. It is OK for our purposes as we aren't in field situations. As for the front sight you are allowed to raise the height. I have used one for individual matches and have had no problems with it.

The "Mounted Infantry" version is the easiest and cheapest way into a long range sighted Mississippi rifle. Just remember you are restricted to 0.54 caliber.

JDH

[B-Davis]

John,
Thank you. If I can replace the front sight with a taller blade, then I am happy with that situation. I have found myself trying to build more unusual pieces that are not seen as often. I really enjoyed building that Richmond type 1-A, but want to build a two band rifle now. I figured the Benton sight would be a fun project.
With that being said, let me open a new can of worms, does anybody have a good recipe for browning a barrel? I have tried some methods, some worked well. While others not so much...Any thoughts?
Bryan Davis

[Curt]

Hallo!

Over the decades I have tried and experimented with just about all of the commercial and a number of "home remedies' as well.

IMHO, and experience, I latched on to Laurel Mountain Forge browning solution. Odd coincidence I was just about to shut down and run out to the Log Cabin Shop to buy a bottle as I have run out.

The nice thing about Laurel Mountain Forge is that it is self degreasing. The curse and flaw in a number of browning solutions is that they are sensitive to grease and oil on the steel, some even as slight as finger print oil or sometimes the residual oil left in the making of steel wool (one does not realize until it has screwed up a project).
Anyways, I still pre 'degrease" even with Laurel Mountain.

Where I live, in summer there is enough humidity in the air not to need a sweat box. And, I just apply a light application once a day for 3-4-5 days. I "card" off the uneven and excess, Then I lightly scrub with baking soda to kill the acid to prevent after rusting. Next I heat the metal and apply a heavy coat of oil and allow it to sink in for a few hours. And last, I heat and apply some melted bullet lube (Crisco and beeswax) and wipe smooth and clean.

Laurel Mountain Forge browning is also EXCELLENT for rust-bluing (blackening).

For quicky jobs I used to like Plum Brown, back in the days when, IIRC, it still had mercury and worked versus the weal ersatz stuff it is now.

c

[Greg Ogdan 110th OVI]

+1 to what Curt said. It's not quick, but it does a beautiful job. After the soda bath, I use hot soapy water, dry thoroughly, and apply a very light coat of Laurel Mountain Forge Permalyn sealer. If you have stopped the rusting process, there will be no bleed through, and the Permalyn seals the metal, so greatly reduced need for care of any sort.

[Jud96]

Can the Benton experimental rear sight available from S&S be used?

[John Holland]

JUD,

The Benton Experimental Slide Sight has yet to be documented in numbers high enough to allow its use in the N-SSA. If you would care to work on documenting it, please do so!

John Holland
SAC

[Jud96]

JUD,The Benton Experimental Slide Sight has yet to be documented in numbers high enough to allow its use in the N-SSA. If you would care to work on documenting it, please do so!John HollandSACI've always been interested in less common firearms and the Benton sighted Mississippi is really neat and I would be interested in building one in the future. I discovered the Experimental Benton sight and this really got me interested. Hopefully there is more info out their on the experimental Benton. Thanks

[Curt]

Hallo!

George Moller (p. 141) assigns a typology of "Type 1A" to the first batch of Benton "screw pattern" rear sights as these either originally made or altered to long-range rear sights.
590 new M1841's were made at Harpers Ferry in (fiscal year) 1855, with most being altered to long-range rear sight in the second half of 1854. All rifles were of .54. They were also Snell bayonet equipped.

Type 1B's. During FY 1855, 1041 rifles were returned to HF from Washington Arsenal for alteration. But these did not get the Snell bayonet and barrel millings and instead had the M1855 Rifle type bayonet stud with "guide key" aka guide rail. They were milled for Benton dovetails but originals show up with Type 2B long range rear sights. IIRC, these later ones were bored to the new standard of .58.

Because...

Field trials of the Benton alterations showed that the sight mechanism was "fragile," and that the dovetail milling allowed the sight to be jarred sideways or even lost. That led to the Type 2 series, initially with the long range rear sight soldered in place. For FY 1855, 449 new rifles made at HF may have been of this type. Plus a number of recycled Benton Type 1's.

So, the max number of Benton rear sighted, Snell bayonetted M1841's would have been 590 in 1855. The maximum number of Benton rear sighted sabre bayonetted M1841's would have been 1041 in 1855. Or a total of.. just 1631.

IMHO, were it gets hard to impossible is in knowing the loss and attrition rate of the 1854/1855 made Benton equipped M1841's by 1861.
And, such "fine points of detail" were, are, often lost on Ordnance Department folks and even Period writers. For example, the 1859 survey of Federal arsenals lists 43,375 "Rifles... Made as percussion, cal 54" but that is as descriptive as it gets.

IMHO still, even if everyone of the Benton alterations survived to 1861-1865, the number is very small at 1631.

Of course, if one was a Union or Federal soldier issued one, then the odds go up much higher. :) :) But while a soldier or officer might write in a letter that they were issued "Harpers Ferry's rifles" say, or Model 1841 (Model 1842 in the Confederate Ordnance manual) I know of none (use of universal so noted) who talked about Benton sights or Snell bayonets, etc.

c

[John Holland]

I believe we are going down a different pathway here. As I understand it, Jud is asking about a very rare Mississippi sight. I believe Benton had a hand in the development, hence the appellation, which may be only a modern term. In the S&S online catalog you will see a photo of it shown with the Benton Screw Sight, as we know it. This link may get you there http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=81&pg=4

I have seen two original Mississippi rifles with this rare sight. The problem lies in the terminology used by those who kept the records. The "Benton Experimental Sight" (as we call it) can be raised to a vertical position, like the screw version, but rather than have a screw adjustment it has a slide that is raised vertically. The record keepers called this a "Slide Sight". Unfortunately, when Harper's Ferry transitioned to the rear sight series with sidewalls and a ladder, they also called this a "Slide Sight". Hence the difficulty in determining the difference between the two types. And, that is where we are stuck!

JDH

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

Hey Bryan, have you ever had an itch on your leg that you were told not to itch? And then it began to itch more and more and more, so you cave and you itch it?

Have to ever had a sight that is easily adjusted that when you fire those first two shoots you can move the sight? And then after the next one and the next one?
To me the sight would be to tempting to adjust after every shot if you were off a little.

[B-Davis]

Joe,
I understand what you mean. I am torn between two projects. I have to wait until an auction is over to find out in which direction I am going. One direction has me playing with those big 'ole .69 calibers again. If this this does not pan out, then I will working with a Mississippi.
I actually have an original patchbox, triggerguard, and butt plate for a Mississippi. I would like to find out if they would fit on a Pedersoli Mississippi. IF so, I then want to find out if an original lock would also fit. IF that were to all work, I want to build a Type II Mississippi with the Benton Rear sight.

Yeah, you are right it is like setting a lollipop in front of a kid and saying, "Don't touch!" But I figured if I find my horizontal with the Benton and silver solider that point, then I can only screw up elevation. LOL!
I mainly want to build it because I had seen one original Mississippi in that configuration and just thought it was the best looking rifle I had ever saw! Over time, I would replace the 58 cal. barrel with a .54 cal barrel. (Quick question, would it have to be re-inspected when switching barrels?)
Basically it would be my never ending tinker project. In the long run, it would be a deer rifle/individuals rifle. Some may call me crazy, but at least I KNOW that I am!http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/images/smilies/icon_razz.gifhttp://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/images/icons/icon6.png

Bryan

[ian45662]

can a mississippi with the benington sight be in 58 cal?

[B-Davis]

Yes, there seems to be only one variant of Mississippi that is restricted by caliber. The Benton is not restricted by caliber. All other variants can be either caliber.

Bryan

[Muley Gil]

Yes, there seems to be only one variant of Mississippi that is restricted by caliber. The Benton is not restricted by caliber. All other variants can be either caliber.

Bryan

It was common for different companies in a regiment to be armed with different weapons (at least for early war). If Co. A had smoothbore .69 flintlocks, Co. B had .69 1842 muskets, Co. C had .577 Enfields, Co. D had .54 Mississippis, etc., imagine the headaches suffered by the poor supply officer, try to get the right ammo to the right company commander.

[John Holland]

The Mississippi Rifle classified as a "Type F" by the Small Arms Committee is restricted to 0.58" caliber only. This Mississippi Rifle was the last version constructed at Harper's Ferry and was purpose made in 0.58" caliber with a M-1858 rifle musket three leaf rear sight, M-1855 H.F. rifle front sight, M-1855 H.F. bayonet lug (no guide), and the H.F. short front band.

JDH