British side arms ? 1850-1865

[MIR]

Looking to acquire more information regarding what the British army fielded as side arms(pistols) during the 1850-mid 1860’s. I understand Colt 1851 Navies were used but did not know if these were private purchase or issued weapons by ordinance and whether or not US made holsters were used or British style/made holsters were issued, would these be black leather or buff?

Is the London finish Navy pistol a Colt export or were these made in England? Not sure if it was in any relation to military sidearms or for the civilian market.

Thanks

[Curt]

Hallo!

In brief, as with the American army and state CW regiments, British officers were responsible for their own side arms. And yes, enlistedmen were issued side arms appropriate to their branch of service as well.

Popular revolvers of the era in Great Britain were:

-London Armoury's 1857 Kerr revolver in .36 and .44.

-Adams revolvers, mostly .49 and.51 dragoon types, but the .44 were the most popular. They made a few .36's as well.

-Beaumont-Adams in .49, .44, and .32. originally made by Deane, Adams, and Deane and then by London Armoury. Plus a few under license by others. A few were also made in the U.S. by Massachusetts Arms Company. It was something of a hybrid Adams using the 1854 Adams' frame and barrel.

-Wedge Frame Webley revolver (sometimes aka Webley-Bentley) which in 1861 was an upgrade of an earlier version. These were cheaper competitors to the Tranter and Adams line, as instead of a more expensive sloid frame it had a "Colt style" wedge to hold frame and barrel together..)

- 1853 Tranter revolvers developed by William Tranter who worked for Deane, Adams, and Deane on the Adams revolver.

-London made LeMat revolvers.

Colt had an eye on the British gun trade as early as 1852, and got his London Armory factory up and running making M1849 Pockets and M1851 Navy's along a batch of 700 Dragoons. The British liked them, and Colt's biggest order prior to the ACW was a British one for 23,500 Navy's made at Colt's London factory.
With the end of the Crimean War in 1856, Colt's expanded Hartford facilities, and competition in England, Colt's London Armory was closed in 1857 except for some office staff and a small number of gunsmiths for local repairs. With rumors of a "Civil War," Colt shipped back the inventory of pieces parts.

Curt

[MIR]

Hallo!

In brief, as with the American army and state CW regiments, British officers were responsible for their own side arms. And yes, enlistedmen were issued side arms appropriate to their branch of service as well.

Popular revolvers of the era in Great Britain were:

-London Armoury's 1857 Kerr revolver in .36 and .44.

-Adams revolvers, mostly .49 and.51 dragoon types, but the .44 were the most popular. They made a few .36's as well.

-Beaumont-Adams in .49, .44, and .32. originally made by Deane, Adams, and Deane and then by London Armoury. Plus a few under license by others. A few were also made in the U.S. by Massachusetts Arms Company. It was something of a hybrid Adams using the 1854 Adams' frame and barrel.

-Wedge Frame Webley revolver (sometimes aka Webley-Bentley) which in 1861 was an upgrade of an earlier version. These were cheaper competitors to the Tranter and Adams line, as instead of a more expensive sloid frame it had a "Colt style" wedge to hold frame and barrel together..)

- 1853 Tranter revolvers developed by William Tranter who worked for Deane, Adams, and Deane on the Adams revolver.

-London made LeMat revolvers.

Colt had an eye on the British gun trade as early as 1852, and got his London Armory factory up and running making M1849 Pockets and M1851 Navy's along a batch of 700 Dragoons. The British liked them, and Colt's biggest order prior to the ACW was a British one for 23,500 Navy's made at Colt's London factory.
With the end of the Crimean War in 1856, Colt's expanded Hartford facilities, and competition in England, Colt's London Armory was closed in 1857 except for some office staff and a small number of gunsmiths for local repairs. With rumors of a "Civil War," Colt shipped back the inventory of pieces parts.

Curt


Wow Curt..!!!!! That is a bundle full of information there…I sincerely appreciate that. In fact, I never have even heard of some of those revolvers you mentioned (except for the Webley) ---- Now I just need to find out the type of holsters the British army used for the Colt Navy revolver, Im sure it was something similar to our version, perhaps in buff white though maybe.

[Steve Weems]

Shame the Kerrs have not been reproduced. I'm sure the start up costs for a design that is
so different from the Colt and Remington compared to potential sales volume is the problem.

[Curt]

Hallo!

Sorry, I know next t Nothing about British uniforms and kit of the 1850's and 1860's.. other than the guns which have an ACW link.

AS with the Americans in the 1850's the British were getting away from paired 'horse' pistols carrie din pommel holsters on the horse to being smaller lighter revovlers worn on a waist or swordbelt.

I do recall a Webley-Bentley (aka Webley Wedge) with a holster with its revolver, but I do not knows its provenance or association. It is an atypical large flap belt "left handed' or butt-to-the-front when worn right sided.. holster with a side-to side horizontal strap rather than a stud or strap and buckle to keep it closed. There is no toe plug,, it is just stitched closed across the bottom. It appears to be oiled natural leather never blackened.

I might can post an image, but it is for a Webley not a London Colt Navy.

I would suggest trying the Inter Library Loan Service at your local library (if large enough) to pull in some uniform and equipment books on the British Army say for the Crimean War.

It is my bias, or belief, that most of the British revolvers imported for the North or South were in crates or sometimes presentation type boxed sets.. and did have the holsters with them anyways. So, they went into U.S.holsters that would fit or may be for an officer even being custom made to fit an odd ball gun like say a LeMat.

You might be able to look up "images" of say London Colt Navy's as sometimes (rarely or almost never) original revolvers do come with their holsters. But I would say you are going to wear out your eyes looking at related search engine images as a London Colt, without looking myself, is fairly 'rare' or "rarish."

Regards,

Curt

[Pat in Virginia]

MIR,

Yours is a question that would be good to post on the MLAGB forum's website: MLAGB Forum (http://www.mlagb.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl) . You'll probably get all the information and pointers to resources that you will need if you want to dig deep into the subject. The early 1850's would have seen Britain at war with Russia in the Crimea. The Pattern 1853 Enfield rifle came along at that time.

Pat

[Southron Sr.]

If you have noticed, the Italian manufacturers are reluctant to introduce new replicas to the marketplace. For example, even though Austrian Rifles were widely used by both the Union and Confederacy, no Italian made replica Austrians have ever been placed on the American market.

Same can be said for the Civil War Kerr Revolver. Produced by the London Armory Company, Kerr's (in numbers alone) petty much became the "Unofficial Revolver" of the Confederacy. More Kerr Revolvers were purchased by the Confederacy than all of the revolvers made in the Confederacy combined!

One handicap that a replica Kerr Revolver would face is that the cylinder holds only 5 shots, which would definitely handicap any Skirmisher using one in the Revolver Team Matches.