Afghan Enfield Issue Shared

[Charlie Hahn]

Recently I was going over a war prize back from Afghanistan. I made an interesting discovery in the breech area. The section of the barrel where the breech plug was to be screwed into had been crudely machined out to make a shoulder where the bullet would have been seated, and the breech plug was soft soldered in the barrel and hidden very well. If this musket where to have been fired, the operator would have gotten a face full of wood and breech plug.

I am sure that members would always have these guns dissembled before attempting to use, but others may not. So, as a caution make sure the breech is always taken apart before any attempt to fire, or even snap a cap. If you are unable to do this type of inspection, I offer this service free of charge to N-SSA members and family members.

Regards

Charlie Hahn

[Ibgreen]

This is why I have put a DW barrel on my Nepalese deer popper.

[Curt]

Hallo!

An excellent point and warning.

Some of this are actual intact pieces, some once were intact pieces that have been repaired and maintained by all manner of local gunsmiths as well as ingenious blacksmiths. And some are just pieces parts of originals cobbled to look like intact firearms as the market of American servicemen with CW interests can turn junk into gold.

If one is going to shoot it, be sure to check it out well.

Especially the "Khyber Pass" cottage industry cobbles and copies.

Curt

[Muley Gil]

When I was in the great sandbox from 2004-2007, I looked at a half ton of Enfields. While I found a number of good Snider-Enfields, I never found a good muzzleloader that wasn't either a parts gun or a Kyber Pass Special. Others had better luck with 1853s, 1856s, and 1861s, but not me. I had all of my language assistants on the lookout as well. Did find a number of good War Department bayonets though.

I was in the northeastern part of Afghanistan, Kunduz, and there weren't many good antique guns. The best ones I found were at the weekley bazeer at Bagram Air Force base. But there was junk there too.

[jonk]

My second cousin was over there and brought back an Enfield that had much the same issue.... on the face of it it looked kosher, minus no rifling left. On closer inspection, the lock was handmade Khyber pass junk, and while it had a 'real' (i.e. metal) breech plug, it was just a random piece of metal stuffed in and secured with a single pin driven through the breech.

Life there is cheap.

Some good stuff has come out of the area but also some dangerous stuff.

I would like to get a Martini Henry but so many are Khyber pass knock offs I would hesitate to fire.

[Steve Weems]

A few P1853 Enfields are coming in that have a serial no. on the barrel and it would be nice to to know if
these numbers have any significant meaning. Inquiring minds would like to know.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

It is my understanding that the "serial numbers" often found on British Commonwealth small-arms, like I suspect you may be referring (i.e. A 90921 or similar alpha-numeric) is actually not much different from the numerals sometimes encountered on small-arms of the U.S. military -- typically effecting those small=arms sent back to the arsenal for repairs. Snider's and Martini's usually have their serial numbers marked on the underside of the barrel; and Martini-Henry actions, also on the inside, right flat at the front. In India, there were three factories (Cawnpore, Dehra Dunn, and Muradhabar) which had employed both native workers as well as foreigners formerly employed by British gun-merchants to produce machine-made P/53 Enfields and its derivatives for the Indian Government, who, after the expulsion of the East India Company, Imperial India passed a ban on the further importation of foreign-made firearms necessitating the need to produce their own small-arms internally. "Imperial India" comprised modern-day India, Nepal, Pakistan, Burma, Kashmir and bordering regions, along with neighboring Ceylon.

[Steve Weems]

Richard---Thanks for the input on the serial numbers---this was information I did not know. Steve

[ms3635v]

I recently helped a guy who has an Enfield that his son brought back from Afghanistan. He had been shooting it a local range when a team mate started talking to him. The guy was new to civil war era muzzleloaders and asked for help. My team mate looked the musket and discovered the barrel was shot-out. I supplied the guy with a Bill Large Enfield barrel that had front and rear sights installed. I had not seen an Enfield like this before, until a recent American Rifle magazine had a one page article about this particular rifle musket. I was able to get some good photos of this particular firearm. I am attaching some close-up photos.

3440 3441[/ATTACH] 3442 3443

More photos to follow.

[ms3635v]

Additional Enfield photos.

3444 3445 3446 3447

[Robt. Propst]

Despite avid searching through the authorized Kabul bazaars from 2010-2013, I never found a musket I thought was worth buying. So much of the metal appeared wrong, flimsy, etc... There may have been some genuine articles out there, but the US and Coalition fascination with supposed antique arms guaranteed that the wily entrepreneurs would produce enough to fill the demand. Several dealers would bring in really great items on request, but at a price that would have been more appropriate on Sutlers Row than in Kabul. There may have been some gems out there, I just didn't happen to see them.

[Muley Gil]

Despite avid searching through the authorized Kabul bazaars from 2010-2013, I never found a musket I thought was worth buying. So much of the metal appeared wrong, flimsy, etc... There may have been some genuine articles out there, but the US and Coalition fascination with supposed antique arms guaranteed that the wily entrepreneurs would produce enough to fill the demand. Several dealers would bring in really great items on request, but at a price that would have been more appropriate on Sutlers Row than in Kabul. There may have been some gems out there, I just didn't happen to see them.

I had the same problem in 2004-2007. I found several authentic Sniders and Martini-Henrys, but no decent muzzle loaders. Several of my friends DID find a few, but I never could. :(

Several of mine were found at the bazaar at Bagram Air Force base and I got one M-H at a local bazaar in Kunduz, where I worked at a Regional (Police) Training Center (RTC).

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Ditto Robert and Guy

Aside from what I did/saw in that "garden spot" of the globe, Bagram's bazar was one of the better ones.

True there were a number of "antique" arms available, virtually all were only suitable for hanging over the fireplace mantle...

Like most open air markets, they're a great place to "window shop" and enjoy the break as a brief distraction. But for making quality investments/purchase (rugs, crafts, jewelry) - you had to be an educated buyer.

You could always tell when you had just been a vendor's "Mark" when, after the sale was complete - the grateful salesman would give you a "gift" on top of your purchase. In that way, they really didn't take advantage of a hapless Infidel since they squared up the deal by giving their victim/customer a present above and beyond the transition. Nice... (no I didn't get any "free" gifts)

Wished I'd remembered to bring in some pics this a.m. of the number and types of antique arms being offered for sale, so as to give add'l perspective.

[Curt]

Hallo!

Made by the London commercial firm of E.P. Bond.

It does not carry the NUG (Normally, Usually, Generally) British government London Proof House inspector stamps/proofs. Might be made for 'colonial troops.'

Curt