FFg vs FFFg

[StonewallSharpeson]

Skirmishers,
As I reenactor, I buy FFFg powder in bulk, because it costs the same as FFg but is more combustive, for my reenactment blanks. My question is, how can I use FFFg to fire my .58 (1853 Enfield and 1861 Springfield), .69 (1842 Springfield), and .75 (Brown Bess) muskets without risking over-pressuring my barrels? As a rule, which I developed from looking at fora on the subject, I figured that 100 grains of FFg had about the same combustibility as 80-70 grains of FFFg. Does anyone have anything more scientific?
Additionally, what kinds of FFFg charges can I use to maximize my accuracy with these weapons and the loads associated with them?
You may wish to cross-reference this post with the one I am about to make about historic musket loads.
Thanks for your help,
SS

[Fred Jr]

I have no idea what percentage of skirmishers use FF or FFF. Personally I use FFF. I use it in all my firearms including my Smoothbore, carbine, Rifle and revolver. In the rifle I use 45FFF Goex, carbine 42FFF Goex (that's all the tubes will hold) and I use 12FFF and 20FFF in my revolver. In the smoothie I use 45 of Swiss as it is cleaner. I started skirmishing in 1973 and have tried 2FF but I didn't like it as well so I stayed with 3. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference what I use now but I did fairly well back in the day.

Fred Herlinger, 1097
121TH PA

[Muley Gil]

I've been shooting black powder since 1969 and have better results with FFFg, first Dupont, then Goex.

I use 45 grains with my 1858 Enfield rifle and also with my Enfield musketoon. Both are Parker-Hales.

[Rich Foster]

There is a secret society club which you have to be a member of to shoot ff powder well and know the benefits. There is even a secret password to get the good ff powder when buying it. This is why there is ff powder on the market considering fff powder is the powder of choice. Rich Foster

[Maillemaker]

I also shoot 3F in my rifles and revolvers. 46 grains 3F in my Enfield with an RCBS-Hodgdon bullet, and 44 in my Richmond Carbine with same bullet. 45 in my Walker.

Steve

[Eggman]

Skirmishers,
As I reenactor, I buy FFFg powder in bulk, because it costs the same as FFg but is more combustive, for my reenactment blanks. My question is, how can I use FFFg to fire my .58 (1853 Enfield and 1861 Springfield), .69 (1842 Springfield), and .75 (Brown Bess) muskets without risking over-pressuring my barrels? As a rule, which I developed from looking at fora on the subject, I figured that 100 grains of FFg had about the same combustibility as 80-70 grains of FFFg. Does anyone have anything more scientific?
Additionally, what kinds of FFFg charges can I use to maximize my accuracy with these weapons and the loads associated with them?
You may wish to cross-reference this post with the one I am about to make about historic musket loads.
Thanks for your help,
SS

Well first of all most of the N-SSA is what you might call a light load club. If you search this forum you will not see much discussion of loads larger than 50 grains of either powder for anything. Normally fffg is most popular because it's cleaner burning. An exception might be a discussion of loads for smoothbores - but usually nothing approaching 100 grains.
Your inquiry discusses blank loads, and then slips in a reference to accuracy. They are entirely separate discussions.
As to safety, what exactly are you holding the powder in place with --- a wad?? If so you are quite safe with those big, loud loads reenactors love. However if you are using a chunk of sod, as I encountered one reenactor using with his 150 grain powder charge, you may be in some danger.
As to ignition problems, it is unfortunate that that reenactor sued CCI, forcing them into making a milksop percussion cap. Well for what it's worth you can still enjoy your campfires.

[jonk]

Traditional wisdom has it that under .50, 3f. .50 or over, 2f.

Most N-SSA shooters throw that wisdom out the window.

For most of us- using bullets carefully sized to just under bore diameter, often much lighter than historically were used, with much thinner skirts, 40-50 gr of 3f is the magic spot.

For me, carbines with bullets that are breach loading, sizing 2-3 thousandths over groove diameter and using 2f is a must.

For smoothbore, I also use 3f- but here again is a difference. Most non-N-SSA shooters will used a tightly patched round ball in a smoothbore. Due to our speed loading, we're not using a patch of any kind, and running the balls a bit fatter than you would with a patch- meaning less obduration, and less pressure.

But as to your question in general, only experimentation will tell you if your gun likes 2 or 3f better (or even 1 1/2). You don't have to worry about overpressuring, so long as you use suitable, reasonable charges- say max of 60 gr of musket instead of 80, max of 75 gr for smoothbore instead of 100, etc.

That said, try some light loads, I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised at the economy, low recoil, and accuracy of them.

[StonewallSharpeson]

I merely mentioned the blanks in the context that FFFg is readily available to me as I buy it for blanks.
I normally do live fire my muskets (I have a .75, a .69, a .58, and a ,577) using this powder, and it has not been a problem, but I do normally use reduced loads as a safety precaution. I guess I'm asking if it really matters.

[Curt]

Hallo!

IMHO, experience, and druthers...

It matters, but to a degree that remarkable or that Joe Average shooter would not perceive or appreciate.

In general...

-FF burns more slowly and leaves more residue. That may be an issue if one's team is putting say upwards of more than 15-20 rounds per man into the pigeon board and five minutes is fast approaching and the Minies don't want to go down...

-Because it burns more slowly (less surface area), FF develops less breech pressure. FFF tends to give a higher pressure spike right away versus FF giving a steady push down the bore.
For some lads who are sensitive to recoil, and where it adds to their flinch and missed shoots, FF is.. within reason and typical loads... a lighter "kick." So, some lads shoot better with FF.

-The difference in pressure curves between FF and FFF may effect accuracy depending upon the Minie design. Some of the older style Minies have thicker skirts than others, an dit takes more pressure to expand the skirt well.

-Historically, thanks to modern production means, modern powder is "finer" granulation than Period powders, and also more chemically consistent and proportionately chemically
percentage balance. Modern FF, is closer to CW era "musket" type powder. (Well, if one overlooks the modern graphite coating.. ;) :) )

-Because it takes less FFF than FF to generate the same pressures, FFF is a tad bit cheaper in the end.

When a Newcomer, I started out with FF, as that was the conventional wisdom and rule-of-thumb at the time... .50 or less FFF, more than .50 FF. After my first season, I switched over to FFF for rifle-musket, rifle, carbine, and revolver. And eventually discovered years later that my main Skirmish gun, a custom-built I made of M1855 Type II RM, fired its best with FFF. But, benched at 50 yards, it would fire a quarter (.25 coin) size hole with 36 grains of FFF pushing a 325 grain semi-wad cutter bullet lubed with Crisco/Beeswax mix and its base filled with lithium grease.
Yes, it was, about the competition not the CW History.

IMHO still... different guns tend to shoot differently and like different loads, bullets, and lubes than others.The key is not so much Lore, and asking 10 lads for opinions and getting 100 replies- it is about spending bench and range time trying to discover the gun you are shooting's favorite meal that will keep it happy.
The other side of the coin is... the loose nut behind the trigger that often has the gun having the ability to shoot better than the shooter can shoot it.

:) :)

Curt