Euroarms breech help.

[R. C. Hubbard Jr]

I have a Euroarms Whitworth. Ever since I bought the gun used it grab the patch near the bottom of the bore.Ok ,so it did it again;only this time I could not even tap the rod out with a hammer. Broke the jag off the rod.
So I pulled the breech plug out. There is some kind of plug in front of the breech plug. Anyone have experience with this set up?

Thanks
R. C. Hubbard Jr

[John Holland]

Bob,

I am aware of some kind of issue in the breech of my Whitworth, too. I am very interested in any info that anyone can provide.

Would you be able to email me any photos that you may have of your breech in the unbreeched condition? jh44ny (@) Verizon.net

Thanks for the post.

JDH

[Eggman]

If you'll be so kind please post them here.

[Curt]

Hallo!

I may be wrong, but... IIRC-
Euroarms uses a weird odd double breech/patent breech set up:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/bplug__zps311ba3b7.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/bplug__zps311ba3b7.jpg.html)

Curt

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Looks like the engineer that designed this was also an experienced plumber.

[RaiderANV]

Yeppers.......the same thing happened to me twenty odd years ago. After finding the schematics and not wanting to start trying to get all of that apart......I poured powder into the clean out and shot the jag out. Took the next jag and turned it down a bit.

[bobanderson]

Bob Hoyt found the same system when he sleeved my Euroarms Mississippi.
He was still able to line my barrel so your problem might be blamed on mass production. Poor execution instead of poor design.

[Gary Van Kauwenbergh, 101]

I had the same problem with a PH Volunteer Rifle I owned. I couldn't shoot it out, and no amount of air pressure worked. I ended up taking it to a gunsmith, who eventually heated up the breech to burn the patch away to get the jag out. I had a buddy make a special jag to clean the patented breech. The head was small enough to get into the breech, but it necked way down to prevent the patch from jamming.

[Eggman]

Wondering if patches are being grabbed how many threads are exposed; how thin is the breach area now that the breach and barrel are not properly joined, the area of highest pressure; wondering if smouldering residue does not hide in this area and if the area will not rust and carode over time since exposed threads cannot be cleaned out.

[John Holland]

Curt, thank you for the photo, most enlightening!
JDH

[R. C. Hubbard Jr]

Thanks to all for the reply's.
I had already figured the sleeved bolster and barrel. with what is pictured, you should be able to remove the breech plug and push out the jag. I removed the plug and have encountered a additional plug of some sort in between the threaded on barrel portion (inside the bolster)and the breech plug.
If I can figure how to get pictures out of my email, I will post them.
Why cannot people just copy something when they are coping something. No re-engineering,re-design just KISS.

Thanks again
RCHJr.
This is what is behind the breech plug.
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/guardsgunner/20140611091510resized.jpg

[R. C. Hubbard Jr]

I am sure that Curt's picture is correct but does not show the additional plug.
Eggman may be right because the vent area is not blocked with the jag lock in place all the way down. Any ideas for the next step?

RCHJr.

[Curt]

Hallo!

Hmmmm.

It appears to be a "tangless" breechplug for the bolster and barrel that is then 'sealed' by the breech plug with a tang for the bolster?

Versus an "open ended," on both ends threaded section uniting the barrel and bolster in the Euroarms' PH Whitworth and Volunteer rifles.

Curt

[R. C. Hubbard Jr]

Curt, that is correct. I would think that this secondary plug must stop short of the pin that goes through at clean out screw. Maybe a spanner to remove this plug without total dis-assembly? Any guess ?

[Curt]

Hallo!

Hmmmm.

Try needle nose pliers to see if you can grab the "plug" and generate enough torque to unthread it?
You might can also increase a little torque by clamping a vise grip to the handles of the pliers or even a large screwdriver shaft or rod placed between them to add sideways twist.

BE CAREFUL NOT to snap it off. That would be a whole other discussion!!! :) :)

When I was serving as "ordnance sergeant" for the Bodyguard, I had hoped lads would donate some of their unwanted barrels to me for 'study' when they replaced them. But most all lads ended up building or buying custom-builts so it never came about.
I was particularly interested in some of the Italian barrels with no breech plugs and what appeared to be a patent breech. I suspect, believe.. that the patent breech was just sleeved and then soldered in place with no threading. I would have like to have had a few to "dissect" and prove or disprove my theories.

:)

Curt

[dbm]

Hallo!
I may be wrong, but... IIRC-
Euroarms uses a weird odd double breech/patent breech set up:
Curt

See the following on my web site where the picture posted appears to have been lifted from:
Euroarms Volunteer - Disassembly <-> Assembly (http://www.researchpress.co.uk/shooting/lrml/gunsmithing/volunteerbreechplug.htm)

David

[Jim Barber]

David, thanks for the link & information. Good to know! The best lesson I've learned from this is to never, ever completely take down a Euroarms. Also, to always clean one very meticulously so you never have to. Looks like EA built a better mousetrap!

Cheers
Jim B.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Perhaps some ambitious enterprising individual may read this thread and decide to help you folks out by manufacturing a similar mechanically-fitting scraper/hexhead ramrod like were often equipped on some Whitworth rifles?

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/Whitworthpic02_zps82c76ca9.jpg