Weak caps?

[jonk]

I have been having all kinds of problems with my Sharps going off. Recently I got a Smith, and had the same issues. Cap sparks, nothing happens. Sometimes 2, 3, 10 caps before the gun goes off. The paper base of the sharps cartridge IS burned through, it just doesn't want to go off! I can verify the flash channel in both is squeaky clean.

Standard 1081 caps, the ones in the red and black round 'tin.'

It was driving me batty, until a team mate gave me a handful of his wingless caps from a few years ago and they set off the sharps just fine. He tried a few of mine in his sharps (which has the Hahn modification) and got hangfires. So it's pretty clear, it's my caps.

That's a problem. The Dynamit Nobel caps are the only ones in the game right now worth spit.

So the question is, have any of you noticed the 1081 caps weaker than a few years ago? Could be I happened into a bad lot, plain and simple. Or they got damp (THIS weekend? NO, not possible! ;)) though I have been having hangfire issues with the gun- or failure to fire issues- since I ran out of wingless caps and Navy Arms caps myself. I just hadn't put two and two together that that was the issue.

I do have an unopened box of winged caps from another lot to try, see how that does. I also note that the winged caps seem to sit a lot tighter on the nipple; maybe some of the flash isn't getting into the nipple because of that, if the cap isn't firmly seated- though the nipple is standard, and if I buy another it is the same size. (Still, I could turn it down a thousandth or two).

If that doesn't work, I've got 2 options. I could put a kicker charge of 4f in the base of the sharps tube (smith that won't work so well) to ease ignition; or I could drill out a nipple a size larger. What do you think?

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

I noticed a decline in the brisance of the German (RWS) caps several years ago when my Sharps carbine began to misfire. This occurred about the same time RWS switched from metal tins to plastic containers. The newer containers are not air or water tight. You will notice a small hole in the bottom of the containers and that could be part of the problem. If the caps are stored in a humid environment prior to use, like on the ship that transported them here or in a basement, that humidity could weaken the strength of the cap. Some lots of German caps may be better than others depending on when they are shipped and how long they might be kept in storage. To solve the problem I switched to the 6-wing CCI caps. Now that the hot CCI caps have been discontinued we may have to get more creative. I've even considered lightly dusting the inside of the German caps with 4F powder. Just need to figure out the best way to make the powder adhere to the inside of the caps without neutralizing the priming compound. Of course such experimentation would risk cap fragmentation and void the cap manufacturer's warranties. Most of us wear eye protection but my teammates still might want to move away from me on the line. I'm open to other ideas.
Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

[jonk]

I noticed a decline in the brisance of the German (RWS) caps several years ago when my Sharps carbine began to misfire. This occurred about the same time RWS switched from metal tins to plastic containers. The newer containers are not air or water tight. You will notice a small hole in the bottom of the containers and that could be part of the problem. If the caps are stored in a humid environment prior to use, like on the ship that transported them here or in a basement, that humidity could weaken the strength of the cap. Some lots of German caps may be better than others depending on when they are shipped and how long they might be kept in storage. To solve the problem I switched to the 6-wing CCI caps. Now that the hot CCI caps have been discontinued we may have to get more creative. I've even considered lightly dusting the inside of the German caps with 4F powder. Just need to figure out the best way to make the powder adhere to the inside of the caps without neutralizing the priming compound. Of course such experimentation would risk cap fragmentation and void the cap manufacturer's warranties. Most of us wear eye protection but my teammates still might want to move away from me on the line. I'm open to other ideas.
Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

One thing I had considered was, after loading the tube, and when dry, dipping the base in some white paste and then in some 4f, to create an exterior coating of 4f on the base of the cartridge. However, that may violate the rules of 'self contained.'

What we need are some hotter caps. While I could probably come up with some homemade priming compound and put a drop in each cap, that would scare me just brewing it up.

[Steve Weems]

I picked up a tin of the CCI caps marked as Multiple Use as opposed to Reenactor. I did not need
them but am curious if they will set off a musket or breech loading carbine. Anyone know how
these perform?

[Jim Barber]

I had the opposite problem-- I managed to get 1000 of the good RWS (German, Dynamit Nobel) caps this spring. I went through the last of last year's caps (also RWS) on Sunday and reloaded my box with the new ones just before we shot pots. While we were snapping caps, I got a good chunk to the nose. Just a flesh wound, nothing to write home about. Then Julie, shooting to my right, got thwacked with one of my caps enough to really draw blood-- Sorry Julie!!! Also, I loaned my indigent, shameless, shiftless brother a box at about the same time, and he got pelted with shrapnel as well. Fortunately he didn't injure any bystanders with his. But by God, they're certainly a hot load of caps!

I don't believe it's a case of worn out parts, since 1)it happened suddenly with the introduction of new caps, having never been pelted ever, ever before by my gun and 2)my brother also experienced the shrapnel immediately after loading up with the same lot of caps. Maybe I should save them for the Smith, which really likes a molten hot ignition, and invest in a pair of wraparound blu-blockers, which will simultaneously shield my eyes AND make me even more irresistible to the ladies. Prolly oughtta get a pair of blu-blockers for the poor sucker on my right as well.

I wonder if the Germans might have some quality control problems?

Cheers!
Jim B
110th OVI
Grove City, OH

[Maillemaker]

The Dynamit Nobel caps are the only ones in the game right now worth spit.

I agree.


I picked up a tin of the CCI caps marked as Multiple Use as opposed to Reenactor. I did not need
them but am curious if they will set off a musket or breech loading carbine. Anyone know how
these perform?

The "Multiple Use" CCI caps are the same as the "Reenactor caps". They have simply slapped a new label over the top of the old label. If you carefully peel off the top label, you will see the "for reenactor use" label underneath. At least I did on two cans that I peeled:

Pictures of the peeled label:
http://imgur.com/a/4yxRl

I find that the CCI caps are not as reliable as the RWS caps. CCI caps will not reliably fire my Richmond Carbine with a right-angle fire channel, but they seem to work ok with my Enfield which has a direct fire channel.

I won't use CCI caps in competition. I use them during practice at home to snap caps.

Steve

[jonk]

Also, for what it's worth, I did talk to one of the guys at Back Creek when I was buying powder. He said that the company that made the caps marketed by Navy Arms some years ago (in Brazil) is supposedly getting back into the US cap game, and Lord willing, the first shipment should come in this summer. I really liked the Navy Arms caps, they worked great in everything, so hopefully we'll soon have another decent alternative to the RWS ones.

[Don Dixon]

Your problem probably isn't "weak" caps, but the twisting fire channel in the Sharps breechblock. Take an AMPCO nipple and enlarge the hole in the base with a .063 inch drill bit in a drill press. I suspect that you will find that RWS caps will then set off the cartridge just fine. A subsequent problem arises as the hole in the base of the nipple enlarges from there. If you shoot regularly, you will have to replace the nipple once a year, because as the hole in the base of the nipple gets too large accuracy starts to go to h_ll. Sharps rifles are touchy little devils.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Muley Gil]

I agree.



The "Multiple Use" CCI caps are the same as the "Reenactor caps". They have simply slapped a new label over the top of the old label. If you carefully peel off the top label, you will see the "for reenactor use" label underneath. At least I did on two cans that I peeled:

Pictures of the peeled label:
http://imgur.com/a/4yxRl

I find that the CCI caps are not as reliable as the RWS caps. CCI caps will not reliably fire my Richmond Carbine with a right-angle fire channel, but they seem to work ok with my Enfield which has a direct fire channel.

I won't use CCI caps in competition. I use them during practice at home to snap caps.

Steve

Have you, by chance, checked the strength of the "multiple use" caps? It is common practice to relabel containers. S&W has done that for years with their handgun boxes.

[Maillemaker]

Have you, by chance, checked the strength of the "multiple use" caps?

I'm not sure. I haven't used them for actual shooting for some time, like I said I only use them for snapping caps now.

However, I peeled up the label a little more, and the part number "0301", is the same on both labels. So I'm betting they are the same caps, just with a new spin.


Steve

[jonk]

Your problem probably isn't "weak" caps, but the twisting fire channel in the Sharps breechblock. Take an AMPCO nipple and enlarge the hole in the base with a .063 inch drill bit in a drill press. I suspect that you will find that RWS caps will then set off the cartridge just fine. A subsequent problem arises as the hole in the base of the nipple enlarges from there. If you shoot regularly, you will have to replace the nipple once a year, because as the hole in the base of the nipple gets too large accuracy starts to go to h_ll. Sharps rifles are touchy little devils.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

No. Gun worked fine until the wingless caps ran out, then started having issues immediately with the winged 1081s. Though as you say, I do intend to start drilling out a nipple in stages, one drill bit larger at a time to see if it helps. I do know that the nipples occasionally need replaced, and what I need to watch for though.

[jonk]

An update for those interested. I opened a box of caps from a different, newer lot I just got. Still not 100% either with the smith or sharps, but 95%. Much better, much hotter; you can even see looking in the cup that there is more of the green priming compound than in the older ones I had (which were only a year old).

As a further experiment, one of my teammates recommended opening up the nipple JUST a tad- a #59 drill bit takes a few thousandths out of it. Am going to try that and then a #58 if needed. One doesn't want to go to far in that direction though, as sharps in particular don't like huge nipples.

[Muley Gil]

An update for those interested. I opened a box of caps from a different, newer lot I just got. Still not 100% either with the smith or sharps, but 95%. Much better, much hotter; you can even see looking in the cup that there is more of the green priming compound than in the older ones I had (which were only a year old).

As a further experiment, one of my teammates recommended opening up the nipple JUST a tad- a #59 drill bit takes a few thousandths out of it. Am going to try that and then a #58 if needed. One doesn't want to go to far in that direction though, as sharps in particular don't like huge nipples.

What brand caps did you buy?

[jonk]

What brand caps did you buy?

Standard red box Dynamit Nobel 1081s.