Lyman 575213 bullet mold base plug?

[MR. GADGET]

ANyone have a picture or spec on a base plug for a Lyman 575213 bullet mold?/

The one I have has the wrong plug and it sticks up past the bottom band or ring and I want to see what it should look like or be shaped like before I just shorten this one.
This one has a very small base cavity in it if I just hold it in place where it should be.

I called lyman, they want shipping each way and about 20$ +10$ return ship to build the plug making it not worth it to send the mold to them and give it a go. So I would have 35-40 maybe more in it after they look at the mold. That is about what a used mold sells for.

May just be best to sell the blocks as it to someone that has the mold with a plug and wants a extra or back up set.

Any thoughts?

[lkmcd1]

Jon, I have a couple pictures, but after trying for 30 minutes, I can't attach them. If you still are interested, please email me at lkmmail@aol.com
Larry

[Ron/The Old Reb]

Mr Gadget
Here is a digram from an old Lyman mold chart from the 1960's. It may give you and idea of how long the plug should be.
http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2610&stc=1&d=1400160182

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Below is the Lyman 575213A (Old Style) with the thicker skirt and shallow hollow base vs. the older Lyman 575213 thin skirt and deep hollow base:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/575213Apics009_zps92fc3111.jpg



http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/575213pics004_zps60d5f51f.jpg

[MR. GADGET]

Mine looks like the one on the right.
From looking at nationals the base plug I had must go to something else and not the mold I have. The shape is all wrong. It looks like a plug that is small and like the shape of a RCBS 520 adj mold. Even have a pistol mold that has the same design plug.
I got someone at nationals to turn one down to fit, I found an extra at lodgewood that was correct shape and also length, just the overall DIA was off a little so the plan was to turn it down to fit in the base of the mold and I should be good.

Just one of those things, may never use it, or start using it all the time.... But what good is blocks with out a plug....

[MR. GADGET]

BTW Could you also get a picture of the base plugs for those two molds.

[Maillemaker]

While we are on the subject of the 575213, I was told the 575213PH is ideal for the 2-band P58 rifle.

It's basically the thin-wall version of the 575213 but with a shorter plug:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/609127/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213ph-58-caliber-575-diameter-566-grain-parker-hale-style

Unfortunately, it's only available in .575. My Pedersoli P58 needs a .578.

Does Moose or somebody make a similar mold in my size?

Steve

[MR. GADGET]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/630234/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-577611-58-caliber-575-diameter-530-grain?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Any thought about this one and have the base plug cut off, they list it as 575 but if I remember it is a 577 per lyman and 577 in the naming.

There was also someone on here that could open them up.

[le piaf]

I shot Lyman 575213 PH in my PH 2 bands , bullets are calibrate at .575 and lyman 580213 with a" PH plug" in my original Zouave , bullets are calibrate at .578. I don't know if 580213 (and 585213) are still in the lyman catalog .

[R. McAuley 3014V]

(http://www.midwayusa.com/product/592352/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213-58-caliber-575-diameter-510-grain-new-style)http://www.midwayusa.com/product/592352/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213-58-caliber-575-diameter-510-grain-new-style



http://www.midwayusa.com/product/589474/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213-os-58-caliber-575-diameter-460-grain-old-style

(http://www.midwayusa.com/product/589474/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213-os-58-caliber-575-diameter-460-grain-old-style)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/609127/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213ph-58-caliber-575-diameter-566-grain-parker-hale-style

[R. McAuley 3014V]

The Ideal-Lyman 575213 has undergone a transformation over the past 65 years or so, and below is a comparison to some of those evolutions by comparison to some other bullets.

(L to R) Rapine 575460 (470 grains); Ideal 575 213 (460 grains); Lyman 575213 (505 grains); Lyman 575213-OS (495 grains); “Minho” Enfield .568 (412 grains) w/ wood plug; Whitworth .568 (600 grains).



http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/Ideal575213002_zpsa39ab5ce.jpg[/URL]

[jonk]

While we are on the subject of the 575213, I was told the 575213PH is ideal for the 2-band P58 rifle.

It's basically the thin-wall version of the 575213 but with a shorter plug:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/609127/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213ph-58-caliber-575-diameter-566-grain-parker-hale-style

Unfortunately, it's only available in .575. My Pedersoli P58 needs a .578.

Does Moose or somebody make a similar mold in my size?

Steve

That depends. If you have a parker hale original or repro with parker hale style rifling, this is true. If (like me) you have a repro with rifling that's totally different in terms of number and rate of rifling grooves, it probably won't do all that well.

It's also in my estimation a huge waste of lead for anything other than 100 yards- and even then, something a little lighter like the Hodgdon or Blue and Gray mold will probably do ya for all but the windiest days.

Though that DOES make me wonder how it would shoot in my new Fayetteville... I suppose I should dust off the mold, degrease it, and give it a whirl.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

That depends. If you have a parker hale original or repro with parker hale style rifling, this is true. If (like me) you have a repro with rifling that's totally different in terms of number and rate of rifling grooves, it probably won't do all that well.

Actually, the old style (1950s) Ideal 575 213 bullet (460 grain), second pair from left, with 45 grains of FFg performed so well, it stacked one round on top of the other from my P/53 Parker-Hale Long Enfield (3-groove, 1:78) and also my original P/60 Tower rifle (5 groove, 1:48), when the two later designs (Lyman 575213 and -OS) would not perform the same. Indeed, when I ran out of cast minies from the Ideal mould and because I did not own that mould to cast more, I bought the Rapine 575460 in an effort seeking to achieve the same performance but found that though it was very close in its design and weight, the bullet did not preform as well as the Ideal 575 213. I even took drastic measures when I resorted to shooting a few original "Minho" bullets to see how they preformed together with a few other minies (Pritchetts) cast from an original mould simply for a comparison.

[Maillemaker]

It's also in my estimation a huge waste of lead for anything other than 100 yards- and even then, something a little lighter like the Hodgdon or Blue and Gray mold will probably do ya for all but the windiest days.

My Pedersoli P58 has a 1:48 twist. The RCBS-Hodgdon bullet shoots terribly in it. I believe it is too short.

Steve

[R. McAuley 3014V]

My Pedersoli P58 has a 1:48 twist. The RCBS-Hodgdon bullet shoots terribly in it. I believe it is too short.

Steve

Hmmmm.... weren't you the one that was the safety on the line at a past Nationals who had noticed me shooting the Lyman 575315 wadcutter with my P/60 rifle, and made the suggestion that I should try the RCBC Hodgdon bullets? Or was that the late Ken Hansen? But it was definitely one of your 4th LA teammates.

When I used the RCBS Hodgdon, I sized them to .576 for my .577 bore, and used 40-grains of triple fine (3Fg) Goex. They shot as tight a group as the Lyman wadcutter I had been using, as as tight a group as did the Lee Ashcan at 50 and 100 yards. But I don't shoot all that much on paper (i.e. individuals) as I do the team matches, and rarely miss any targets in the team events. Perhaps because the Pedersoli 1:48 is straight (broached) rifled rather than progressive-depth rifling might be a factor? If you think the RCBS Hodgdon bullet is too short, maybe using these 600-grain .568 Whitworth conicals might work? They provide a full inch length of contact surface, and in the Whitworth rifling, they expand to mechanically fit with the bore.

[Maillemaker]

Hmmmm.... weren't you the one that was the safety on the line at a past Nationals who had noticed me shooting the Lyman 575315 wadcutter with my P/60 rifle, and made the suggestion that I should try the RCBC Hodgdon bullets? Or was that the late Ken Hansen? But it was definitely one of your 4th LA teammates.

Nope, not me, I've never been to a Nationals and probably never will. Can't justify the vacation time and expense just for me.


When I used the RCBS Hodgdon, I sized them to .576 for my .577 bore, and used 40-grains of triple fine (3Fg) Goex. They shot as tight a group as the Lyman wadcutter I had been using, as as tight a group as did the Lee Ashcan at 50 and 100 yards. But I don't shoot all that much on paper (i.e. individuals) as I do the team matches, and rarely miss any targets in the team events. Perhaps because the Pedersoli 1:48 is straight (broached) rifled rather than progressive-depth rifling might be a factor? If you think the RCBS Hodgdon bullet is too short, maybe using these 600-grain .568 Whitworth conicals might work? They provide a full inch length of contact surface, and in the Whitworth rifling, they expand to mechanically fit with the bore.

My Pedersoli P58 takes bullets sized to .578. I tried RCBS-Hodgdon bullets and, if I recall correctly, got keyholes. I tried a full work-up of loads. I shoot this bullet with my Richmond Carbine (Hoyt barrel) and Euroarms Enfield (Whitacre barrel) with great success.

I am guessing, but I think the issue is not so much contact area with the barrel but rather the relationship in spin rate to length of projectile (Greenhill's equation, etc.). For any given caliber and twist rate there is an optimal bullet length.

If we use Greenhill's equation of Twist = (C*D^2)/Bullet_Length, and given Twist = 48, C=150, D=.578, and solve for Bullet_Length, we come up with 1.04".

My RCBS-Hodgdon bullets measure about .955" long. My RCBS-500M bullets (which I have had the best success with in the P58 so far) measure 1.18" long.

Steve

[jonk]

My Pedersoli P58 has a 1:48 twist. The RCBS-Hodgdon bullet shoots terribly in it. I believe it is too short.

Steve

It is true that the faster the rate of twist, the heavier bullet a gun should like, all things being equal. My Euroarms also has a 1:48 twist, and while it has wandering issues, shoots anything from a giant 600 gr Challenger full wadcutter to a 315 gr Moose with equal sized groups. I think that really, anything in the 1:48 to 1:60 range should do ok with most any common mold- IF the gun likes that bullet. Which is to say, bullet design may be a factor, absolutely, for a given gun; but I don't think length and weight matter so much.

Now you get into a 1:32 or 1:70 rifling or something, then you're getting into territory where (on paper) really heavy or light bullets should be the order of the day. In theory. In practice, it isn't that sure of a thing.

Take what I say with a grain of salt. As my other threads indicate, I'm an OK low A team/high B team grade shooter. I know what should work, in theory, but the proof is in performance and I've had brilliant days and utter failures in that regard. But as to that specific thought, I never found the Hodgdon to be 'too short' for either of my guns I have tried it in.

[Maillemaker]

I might have to have another go with the Hodgdon, then.

Steve