Springfield 1861 Authenticity

[ctadds]

I have a Springfield 1861 and I'm trying to figure out if it is authentic or not. It has all the right markings, stamped with an 1864 date, but I understand that there are a lot of reproductions out there, and don't know how to tell one from the other.

The stock has been modified to a large degree, having been cut back just in front of the third band to give it the look of a modern day rifle. The ram rod is missing as well as some sort of tang that was on the bottom of the barrell near the end of it.

I'm pretty new to all of this, so any information would be most appreciated.

Thanks--C

[CAGerringer]

I have a Springfield 1861 and I'm trying to figure out if it is authentic or not. It has all the right markings, stamped with an 1864 date, but I understand that there are a lot of reproductions out there, and don't know how to tell one from the other.

The stock has been modified to a large degree, having been cut back just in front of the third band to give it the look of a modern day rifle. The ram rod is missing as well as some sort of tang that was on the bottom of the barrell near the end of it.

I'm pretty new to all of this, so any information would be most appreciated.

Thanks--C

C,

Some pictures of lock, barrel, breech, and stock would be helpful. There are plenty of Franken-Fields out there with mixed parts from various models. Also many muzzle loaders were bored out, cut down, and made into "poor men's" shotguns. It's impossible to give you any reliable input without seeing what you've got.

Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

[ctadds]

C,

Some pictures of lock, barrel, breech, and stock would be helpful. There are plenty of Franken-Fields out there with mixed parts from various models. Also many muzzle loaders were bored out, cut down, and made into "poor men's" shotguns. It's impossible to give you any reliable input without seeing what you've got.

Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

Charlie:

Thanks for the quick response. I'll take some pics over the weekend and load them up on Monday.

C

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First set, more to come

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Second set

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Third and final set. Any info here is appreciated. Thanks

[Curt]

Hallo!

Thanks for the pictures.

It appears to be a Model 1864 "Springfield" (modern aka M1863 Type II) that was (likely) sporterized as surplus into a "farmer's shotgun" or "poorman's' shotgun" by boring the barrel out smooth, sawing off the barrel short, removing the sights and sling swivel, and adding a shotgun style front sight post.

I would comment that not everything appears to match. It has an M1864 lock or lockplate, but also has what appears to be an M1863 stock (with no barrel band springs).
M1863's were made from February 1863 through December 1864. There is some controversy, and disagreement, as to whether these things, as well mismatched lockplates and barrels were the result of surplus parts at the end of model production spilling over.. say more lockplates than barrels than were used up... or whether due to the interchangeability of parts one sees swappings being done at a later time (or possible done Period out of armory refurbishing/repair).

Here is an unfinished shotgun restoration of mine minus its sawed-off barrel I have not finished yet:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/SundayM1863_zps8823e6a2.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/SundayM1863_zps8823e6a2.jpg.html)

Curt



Curt

[CAGerringer]

C,
The mark shown in jpg.185421 & jpg.185532 is probably where a thimble had been attached to hold the ramrod in place. I had an old fowling piece when I was a kid, and it had the same mark in the same area.
Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

[Curt]

Hallo!

Quite a common feature, although many are missing having been knocked off and lost. Not a hard an fast rule, but the more sawed off barrels tend to have just one (cheap enough). Some of the full length stock barrel versions (40 inches) have two.

The barrel on my M1863 "shotgun" has a single one, but differs from many in that its location had bee gouged out to give the solder greater purchase.

One of the more famous "shotguns' in History was (maybe) John Burn's M1822 musket turned shotgun allegedly the one (and not a prop) he ran off with to fight the Confederates in Gettysburg (later trading it for a picked up M1861 Springfield RM to fight with the 7th Wisconsin, also sometimes said to be a P1853 Enfield RM):

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/John_Burns_of_Gettysburg_zpsb44d8517.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/John_Burns_of_Gettysburg_zpsb44d8517.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/c73a9fd3-41b0-4415-97a4-9e55be855da1_zpsc0902471.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/c73a9fd3-41b0-4415-97a4-9e55be855da1_zpsc0902471.jpg.html)

Which can be confusing in general. IIRC, the first unit he went up to was the Sharps Rifle armed 150th PA, then the M1854 Austrian Lorenz armed 7th Wisconsin, and then the M1861 Springfield armed 24th Michigan. But in the "confusion" of the McPherson's Ridge fighting on July 1st, wounded men and dropped weapons were available.

Curt