Armisport Springfield

[mdivancic]

It finally got warm enough in Maine to get to the range this weekend. I'm trying to work up a load for my Armisport Springfield. Target below (100 yard musket target at 50 yards) shows five shots at 50g 3F, all to the left. The two shots to the right were with 60g 3F and had more to do with the shooter than the gun. Here's the problem. To put the bullet on the target I'm sighting over the far left edge of the rear sight, 6 o'clock hold. I'm wondering what people would recommend for fixing this?

2535

[Lou Lou Lou]

A combination of things.

File the side of the front sight as much as possible, replace the leaf and re-drill it.
It might still be too cold to work up a load to use during 100 degree weather.
Any chance on exchanging the gun?

[mdivancic]

Why would I want to exchange it? What fun is that? No chance, anyway. I've had this as a wall hanger for the last 10 years. Just trying to see if it will shoot.

Maybe cold, but I've got to start working on the guns sometime. Trying to find a good load for my Fremont as well.

[Mike Stein]

I think I would work more on closing the group before worrying about the sites. Barrel glass bedded? Bullet to Bore? What bullets have you tried? What powders are you trying?
Your group seems to be better with the 50gr. Try 45gr and 40gr to see if that tightens the group.
Also, my experience with Armi Sport sears and tumblers is they have minimal hardness and will go to half-cock on firing when they wear out. The N/SSA has several good smithies. Some will just take the lock, some want stock and lock. Get this tended to so you can concentrate on the rest.

[hobbler]

It finally got warm enough in Maine to get to the range this weekend. I'm trying to work up a load for my Armisport Springfield. Target below (100 yard musket target at 50 yards) shows five shots at 50g 3F, all to the left. The two shots to the right were with 60g 3F and had more to do with the shooter than the gun. Here's the problem. To put the bullet on the target I'm sighting over the far left edge of the rear sight, 6 o'clock hold. I'm wondering what people would recommend for fixing this?

2535


Michael,
Years after purchase my Armisport Fremont now groups to the left. I'm starting to think it's the way they cam the barrel into the stock by cranking the front band clockwise (as seen from the butt). Don't know that for certain but it has me wondering. The fix I contemplated was an adjustable front sight. Now I'm thinking that it can be corrected by elongating the front band spring pin hole with a rat tail file until she has the windage fixed. Then correcting the slotted hole with a little tig weld metal and then truing up the hole roundness. Alternatively if the hole doesn't get very long I may just make the pin a little oval to match. It's one of those round tuit things but I think I got a workable plan.

[hobbler]

Oh yeah, figger the barrel will have to be rebedded after the band is adjusted.

[mdivancic]

Mike: If the weather holds I'll be heading to the range Thursday night with 45gr and 40gr loads. That was my next step. At this point she's really hard to sight looking over the top left edge of the sight. I did get better the longer I did it last Sunday.

The barrel is not glass bedded. I'm shooing a Rapine 577510. The bullet is 1-2 under bore. (Sized to 575). Using Goex 3F. I also tried a Lyman 577611, but it didn't group worth beans (It's shoots great in my son's carbine strangely enough).

So if I get it to group, how do I fix the sights?

[Mike Stein]

Michael,
Depends on your requirements.
If you are just shooting then raise the height of the front sight or lower the notch of the rear sight to lower the shot group. Raising the front sight can be a mill the old blade and stick in a new one. Take material of the left side of the front blade or right side of the rear notch to move group to the right. Do the opposite if you want to move it to the left. Solder material to the left of the blade to move right, do opposite to move left. File the front sight to raise the group. Good enough for playing around and keeping expenses down.

If you are competing within the N/SSA then you need to go to the rule book to see what is allowed. http://www.n-ssa.org/NATIONAL/2014%20Rules.pdf and found under the About Us then under Rules and Forms. It is 246 pages and you will need to go in about 144 pages to get to page 138 to read rule 19.9.1(k) which says:

k.Front sights on revolvers and long arms may be secured to the barrel using a dovetail base in the original position. The attachment of the barrel-sight combination, after the insertion of the dovetail, must conform to the original configuration. The sight must be permanently affixed. There can be no method of adjustment built into the front sight.

This means you can install a thick front blade and shape to the above described physics. But all is for naught if you don't control the variables such as barrel to stock, barrel band pressure and tang screw which is what bedding does.

[hobbler]

Michael,
Depends on your requirements.
If you are just shooting then raise the height of the front sight or lower the notch of the rear sight to lower the shot group. Raising the front sight can be a mill the old blade and stick in a new one. Take material of the left side of the front blade or right side of the rear notch to move group to the right. Do the opposite if you want to move it to the left. Solder material to the left of the blade to move right, do opposite to move left. File the front sight to raise the group. Good enough for playing around and keeping expenses down.

If you are competing within the N/SSA then you need to go to the rule book to see what is allowed. http://www.n-ssa.org/NATIONAL/2014%20Rules.pdf and found under the About Us then under Rules and Forms. It is 246 pages and you will need to go in about 144 pages to get to page 138 to read rule 19.9.1(k) which says:

k.Front sights on revolvers and long arms may be secured to the barrel using a dovetail base in the original position. The attachment of the barrel-sight combination, after the insertion of the dovetail, must conform to the original configuration. The sight must be permanently affixed. There can be no method of adjustment built into the front sight.

This means you can install a thick front blade and shape to the above described physics. But all is for naught if you don't control the variables such as barrel to stock, barrel band pressure and tang screw which is what bedding does.

Definitely need to get the front sight back in the neighborhood before trying to file it down to the left or right.

[mdivancic]

Mike & Hobbler:

Thanks for the help, really appreciated. Still learning when I do stuff like this. Yes, I'm wanting to shoot this at Skirmishes.

I've already read 19.9.1, but was/am confused by the line "The attachment of the barrel-sight combination, after the insertion of the dovetail, must conform to the original configuration". How can one make the front site of a Springfield dovetailed yet make it conform to the original configuration. Also, is there enough metal on this repro to dovetail it?

Here's another question, which I hope doesn't stir up to much, but one of the old timers at the local range recommend I just bend the barrel, which I've heard before. However I've heard from many, many people (including the folks I shoot with) don't do this.

Glass beading, I'm ready to do this, got a kit last year.

[Mike Stein]

"after the insertion of the dovetail, must conform to the original configuration"
After all the other work has been done to minimize group size, you install the front sight, tap for windage, file the blade to raise the group for your chosen sight picture (middle of the bull, bottom of the bull, bull with spacing), then file off the excess base until the ends blend with the barrel contour. At this point, you need to take a look at the accepted weapons list as in the back it lists several gunsmiths. The cheap part is buying the tool. The expensive part is tooling and knowledge. These guys know the rules inside and out, know the peculiarities of musket and round, and in some cases make the imperceptible changes to make it the most accurate rifle for you. You still need to bring out the full potential. Most are happy to talk to you to help you get the best tool for the job.

Bending barrels. In a word. Don't. There are those few who can and the many that think they can. I witnessed barrel bending at Rock Island Arsenal many moons ago being done by well practiced hands to whose work I'd trust. Then I saw a Winchester Model 12 that had been bent by a logger between bumper and frame of his truck. It worked for him, was plug ugly and its adjustment was just right for his peculiar mounting of gun to shoulder. The minimum requirement in many places to be a gunsmith is hang a shingle that's says "I are a gunsmith" which is why finding a good one takes time.

Use the search function on this site to find the many threads on bedding. It ranges from breach only to full length. Prior discussion may be useful to you in deciding best option.

[mdivancic]

Thanks Mike. One of the nice things about the N-SSA is the people and the knowledge they are willing to share. We've been doing this seven year and still have a lot to learn. Guess Iv'e got a project at the next Nationals.

Bending a barrel sounded cray to me, but I've heard it several times.