cleaning solvent question

[professor7]

I have been using the "triple threat" solvent of equal parts alcohol, oil soap, and hydrogen peroxide. It seems to do a good job, but when I swab my bore before loading a few weeks after cleaning, I find a small amount of rust. I oil the bore after cleaning each time. I know the alcohol is a good solvent and evaporates quickly. The oil soap is there to dissolve the grease from the bullet lube. My question is: what is the purpose of the peroxide? If I recall correctly, peroxide is a pretty good oxidizer (read that as rusting). Does anyone know why the peroxide is in the mix, or has anyone tried just the alcohol and soap?

professor7

[Maillemaker]

I was given a batch of "possum piss" (1/3 rubbing alcohol, 1/3 hydrogen peroxide, 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap) when I started skirmishing, so I made up a big batch of it myself when I ran out. I had no problems with it.

However, I switched to Ballistol because I was told that the hydrogen peroxide solution is harmful to wood, whereas Ballistol is great for wood. Ballistol also is a rust preventative. It's magic juice for black powder cleanup.

Steve

[efritz]

Try brewing up some Eds Red. Look it up on the internet. Been using it for 30 yrs. After cleaning in hot soapy water, drying, wiring brushing with Hoppes #9, swabbing with a few patches of #9, then Eds Red I still get a little greyish dirt on my patch. Use a few of them then some Rig gun grease on an Eds Red patch, in the bore and outside, good to go between shoots or over the Winter and beyond. Never had a problem because of a dirty gun and I shoot 9 of them at Nat'ls. Forgot powder once or twice but clean guns with powder always worked and I haven't deviated from that routine.


Hope that helps

[rkaires]

I started using Ed's Red a while ago for all my guns that shoot lead bullets. Both smokeless and black. It works great for leading,lube and powder fouling.

http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm


CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner


1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.

1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1

1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits

CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.

1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)



Regards,
Bob

[Rebel Dave]

Just plain ole hot soapy water, for the last forty years, after a shoot, followed by a little a swab in the bbl of a little balistol. Swab out the bbl with alcohol before shooting again. I got better things to do, than to mix up all that stuff, and wonder why I still get flash rust. I don't get any. At the range after a shoot I run a lot of 50- 50 Balistol down the bbl., and on the external parts. When I get home, I pump out the bbl in bucket of the above.

Rebel Dave

[Fearless Frank]

Try a patch soaked in windshield washer solution. I been using it for years and it works great and a gallon is only$2.99+tax. Oil with G96. The best!

[Robt. Propst]

Ordinary Windex straight from the bottle does a good job, and is available anywhere. The anti-foam variety is not as wood friendly. Baby wipes make a nice cleaner for exteriors, as well as a first patch down the bore, just have to dry the bore carefully when complete, then oil. Just my solution for the last few years. Regards, Bob

[jonk]

As for the ed's red, when black powder burns it leaves behind some sort of salt. Given the potassium nitrate in the mix, probably a potassium based salt I'm guessing. Salt doesn't dissolve in oil really, so you may be leaving some salt behind. Salt does dissolve in water. I can see the Ed's red doing a treat on removing lube, crisco, lithium grease, etc., but then most oils will do the same. Still, if it works for you, by all means. I like Ed's red a lot for smokeless fouling.

I find the peroxide/alcohol/murphy's mix to be very good and makes an excellent hand cleaner after the shoot. However I DO find it flash rusts; so I usually do the following.

1. Plug nipple. Scrub bore with brush and a little water. Dump out water. Repeat until it's no longer tarry looking. Scrape breech.
2. Switch to the 3 part mixture with patches and a jag. Repeat until appears clean.
3. Take out nipple and clean nipple and bolster. Replace.
4. To avoid the flash rust issue, finish by rinsing with some plain water- pour about an ounce in the bore (plug nipple again) swish around, empty.
5. Dry.
6. Oil. Ballistol is good, I often use it; but usually I use some WD40 squirted down through the nipple to make sure all the water is displaced, then wipe that out as it isn't good for storage, and finish with some LSA oil.

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

When I first started skirmishing 40 years ago, a teammate recommended a mixture of 1/3 Lestoil, 1/3 clear ammonia, and 1/3 hydrogen peroxide as a cleaning solution to mix into my bucket of hot water. It worked fine but one day my bottle containing this mixture broke all by itself and spilled the contents. I suspected the peroxide had something to do with it. Since that time I've left peroxide out of the mix. Now I just mix 3 parts Lestoil to 1 part clear ammonia. One half cup of this solution in a gallon of hot water works just as well. Murphy's Oil Soap and alcohol may work better with peroxide but, as you discovered, its corrosive/oxidation properties can still be a problem. There are other good cleaning products out there but good old hot water probably remains the most important ingredient for dissolving fouling.

Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

[Mike w/ 34th]

Professor,

The peroxide cuts the carbon fouling. Vinegar will do it, too. Neither is good for your barrel, but they're great at cleaning your hands after a skirmish.

As others have said, there are better options. I use windshield wiper fluid on patches, pre-soaked and carried with me on the line in a little plastic box. At home, for thorough cleaning, I've discovered this stuff called One Shot, that is very effective. Squirt it on, wipe it off, gun's clean in no time.

Cheers,

Michael

[Eggman]

According to the prolific black powder researcher Sam Fadala, black powder when it burns leaves behind solid residues equal to 50% of its original weight. This includes carbon, and the following salts:
potassium carbonate
potassium sulfate
potassium sulfide
potassium thiocynate
potassium thiosulfate
all highly corrosive.

[Maillemaker]

But the real question is: What are those little red bead things that show up in your fouling? Satan's tears?

Steve

[R WAINWRIGHT]

This is a great topic. As you can see everyone has their own pet formula. Good old hot soapy water cleans black powder as good as any for me. I like dawn soap..if the EPA can use it to clean ducks when an oil spill occurs its good for me to put in my barrel. No harsh chemicals. peroxicide etc. Then put your favorite lube in the barrel. Swab it dry first then get the lube in as quick as you can as if u let the barrel stand around for awhile it will show rust quickly. Experiment a little you'll find your own routine.

[Eggman]

But the real question is: What are those little red bead things that show up in your fouling? Satan's tears?

Steve

Those red things are super heated carbon. If you compress them some more they become diamonds.

[Fearless Frank]

The little red things are markers. Put in there for identification.

[Muley Gil]

Over the past 40 plus years, I've used Black Solve, hot soapy water, peroxide, etc. I have settled on 50/50 Ballistol & water for the solvent.

I scrap the breechplug and use a bristle brush. I then swap the barrel, using the Ballistol solution. Then dry with several patches. I then lube with Bore Butter.

The Bore Butter seasons the barrel like a cast iron skillet, making clean up very easy.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Hot soapy water & Dawn detergent. With a follow up bucket of only hot water as a "rinse". Patches only - never used a scraper or bore brush, always remove the nipple. Swab out w/nice dose of WD40 shortly after 2d rinse/bucket. Swab out further w/Ballistol, Hoppes, or any decent arms oil that's available.

I never swab out my musket while on the line. But for my other pieces, in my kit I have a small Tupperware container full of wet patches - soaked in pure Simple Green. Works GREAT, cheap and easy!

[Ron/The Old Reb]

Don't need all that fancy stuff. Just hot water with some Simple Green a little Dawn dish detergent. Fowled with a dry patch then a real wet patch of good old Hoppies No. 9 not the black power stuff. Then a dry patch and a good wet patch of Brake Free. Never had to scrape the breach. Or any rust. Worked for me all these years.

[professor7]

I have been using the "triple threat" solvent of equal parts alcohol, oil soap, and hydrogen peroxide. It seems to do a good job, but when I swab my bore before loading a few weeks after cleaning, I find a small amount of rust. I oil the bore after cleaning each time. I know the alcohol is a good solvent and evaporates quickly. The oil soap is there to dissolve the grease from the bullet lube. My question is: what is the purpose of the peroxide? If I recall correctly, peroxide is a pretty good oxidizer (read that as rusting). Does anyone know why the peroxide is in the mix, or has anyone tried just the alcohol and soap?

professor7

Thanks to all who have shared their methods and materials. I only "discovered" skirmishing after 60...should have been doing this years ago. It is a great sport where people are willing to share their years of experience with the new recruits.

[Rick R]

I have gone from alcohol, Hydrogen peroxide & Murphy's Oil Soap to Simple Green but now am using Greased Lightening. I have always included a few WD40 wipes and Hoppes #9 . The Greased Lightening works great but doesn't play nice with the finish on your stock. The concern with peroxide is your breach pug threads. Never had an issue since I always rinsed and was liberal with WD 40 and used plenty of oil when done.

[Fred Jr]

Just plane ol' windex for me. Oil with balistol. Pretty simple and it seems to work OK.

[Bob Lintner]

Ballistol Moose Milk at the range, plain old hot soapy water (Ivory Dish Detergent) when I get home, then straight Ballistol Oil for the musket. I just use Ballistol Moose Milk and straight Ballistol Oil for the Henry. I use Permatex Anti Sieze Lubricant (silver stuff) on the musket nipple threads after cleaning it in hot soapy water. Works for me! Bob

[jek279]

I am not out to convert nor preach, but provide some thing to consider. Why do people season a cast iron skillet? Why don't you wash a cast iron skillet with soapy water. Is metal or iron porous. What is open faced lattice mean? Now, how does this relate to cleaning a gun and all your would be handed down special formulas. Metal is porous, plain and simple. Think of it like a sponge. The pores will fill up with burnt powder, lube, etc. after shooting. All your alcohols, solvents, and degreasers remove the gunk from the pores increasing the surface area for water and then rust. And you wonder why it can rust so fast after cleaning. That is why you don't use soapy water to clean a cast iron skillet. Once the pores are filled, leave them that way. Think about this. What is rust? Water and a ferrous material in the presence of oxygen. How do you keep a car from rusting? You paint it and seal the metal pores. You can do the same with oil. Use warm water to soften the burnt powder, and then clean and coat with a light film of any oil. W-D, 40 works because the W-D stands for Water Displacement, and the 40 stands for his 40th version. It displaces water and fills with oil. Leaving the micro pores in the barrel filled with burnt powder will hurt nothing, just keep it oiled and sealed from oxygen. Think back to your cast iron skillet. As for open faced lattice, that basically means you steel has pores. How do you think the soldiers achieved great accuracy and cleaned barrels without hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, etc. I have a gun that is 25 years old and looks like new. I reenact with it and live fire. It rusts slower than the average guys gun in the rain because the wood and metal has soaked up the oil over the years. If you keep cleaning the pores out and remove the oil, the gun will rust fast every time.

[Ron/The Old Reb]

jek279

Amen
And food taste better cooked in an old cast iron skillet. The older the better.
.2507

[Lithuanian artillery]

What I use, especially for my Henry is the waterless handcleaner you find in auto supply stores, like gojo. I dry brush the bore at first, then put some on the brush and coat the inside after plugging the breech with a patch. Then I use a small brush and dab it into the lifter area. I wait a few minutes and then pour boiling water down the breech with the muzzle down on a rag. It dries right away and then I dry patch and coat with some ballistol. I have used this on all my skirmish guns to no detriment. The cleaner will get watery after a while. This is actually better as it goes down the bore better.

Just my 2 cents.

take care
Andy

[William H. Shuey]

I have been using the "triple threat" solvent of equal parts alcohol, oil soap, and hydrogen peroxide. It seems to do a good job, but when I swab my bore before loading a few weeks after cleaning, I find a small amount of rust. I oil the bore after cleaning each time. I know the alcohol is a good solvent and evaporates quickly. The oil soap is there to dissolve the grease from the bullet lube. My question is: what is the purpose of the peroxide? If I recall correctly, peroxide is a pretty good oxidizer (read that as rusting). Does anyone know why the peroxide is in the mix, or has anyone tried just the alcohol and soap?

professor7

Can happen depending on where the barrel is stored till next use. That hydrogen peroxide is an aqueous (water mix) solution so you might be leaving a small amount of water in the bottom of the bore.
My answer for years has been simple-a thorough swabbing with a patch soaked in RIG (Rust Inhibiting Grease) after cleaning and drying the bore. I swear by RIG.

Bill Shuey
1st Maine Hvy. Art.

[jim2622]

this is 1 of those topics that will generate 100 different answers...like asking whats the best bullet lube?....well, in the 44 years i have been shootin BP i think i tried all the cleaning recipes...AND the best i have found',I found recently...I use lysol antibacterial wipes or there generic ...that stuff just melts BP residue AND lube...be sure to oil after!!....pre-moistened patchs in a can :).. haven't used a drop of water(except revolver cylinder) since i found these!....
and that is my 2 cents worth!