Burnside loads

[spadegrip]

I am looking for some help from you Burnside shooters. I have the Lyman 557475 and the Rapine moulds and I need load info like do you use wads? Powder charges, FF, or FFF. Case type ( s&s, Lodgewood) lube etcetera.
Thanks for the help.

[B-Davis]

I am currently trying to build up a load for a Burnside also. I went to the range today (NE Pennsylvania) and the weather is about 40 degrees outside. It was rainy and I was shooting under a roof. (All things to make a shooter shoot low)
I also have done nothing to the trigger pull as of yet. (I plan on using a repro Spencer mainspring to lighten the pull) I also was shooting off hand today.
I am using the Lyman 557-465 hollow based mini with 36 grains of 2F. The target/bull is 4 inches across. I was aiming at 6 o'clock on the bull. I fired my last eight shots at this target. It is far from perfect, but I think it is going in the right direction.
2283

[spadegrip]

[QUOTE=B-Davis;36642]I am currently trying to build up a load for a Burnside also. I went to the range today (NE Pennsylvania) and the weather is about 40 degrees outside. It was rainy and I was shooting under a roof. (All things to make a shooter shoot low)
I also have done nothing to the trigger pull as of yet. (I plan on using a repro Spencer mainspring to lighten the pull) I also was shooting off hand today.
I am using the Lyman 557-465 hollow based mini with 36 grains of 2F. The target/bull is 4 inches across. I was aiming at 6 o'clock on the bull. I fired my last eight shots at this target. It is far from perfect, but I think it is going in the right direction.
2283[/QUOTE
i can't get the 557 bullet in the case without sizing. I am shooting 40 grains of FF and I'm getting slightly better groups, but not what I think is the potential for the carbine.

[John Holland]

The thing you have to take into consideration is that the rifling in a Burnside Carbine is a gain twist. An arm with a gain twist is very unforgiving in bullet/load combination. There is a very narrow window of combinations which will work. You will have to do quite a bit of individual experimentation to find what will work in your specific Burnside. Most people give up in frustration before they find the correct combination. This applies to original Ballard Rifles, too.

JDH

[spadegrip]

The thing you have to take into consideration is that the rifling in a Burnside Carbine is a gain twist. An arm with a gain twist is very unforgiving in bullet/load combination. There is a very narrow window of combinations which will work. You will have to do quite a bit of individual experimentation to find what will work in your specific Burnside. Most people give up in frustration before they find the correct combination. This applies to original Ballard Rifles, too.

JDH

Thanks John. Do you recommend any loads? And THANKS for all you do for the association.

[Muley Gil]

"And THANKS for all you do for the association."

Ditto. John da THE MAN. :D

[B-Davis]

I had annealed the casings and then did some thing odd, but seems to work. I took a flathead screwdriver that was wider than the diameter of the open mouth of the fading and ground it down on a slight diagonal on each side, it was narrower at the bottom and gradually got wider as it reached the top. I ground the driver down till I could have it enter the carding. I then VERY gently turned the screw driver to open the mouth of the casing ever so slightly! Noe I can fit the .577 round in snugly by hand.
I will be taking the carbine out again after Christmas, I will how it works once I put in the lighter mainspring. As I had shown earlier, I think with a lighter trigger pull, the group will improve considerably!

[spadegrip]

I had annealed the casings and then did some thing odd, but seems to work. I took a flathead screwdriver that was wider than the diameter of the open mouth of the fading and ground it down on a slight diagonal on each side, it was narrower at the bottom and gradually got wider as it reached the top. I ground the driver down till I could have it enter the carding. I then VERY gently turned the screw driver to open the mouth of the casing ever so slightly! Noe I can fit the .577 round in snugly by hand.
I will be taking the carbine out again after Christmas, I will how it works once I put in the lighter mainspring. As I had shown earlier, I think with a lighter trigger pull, the group will improve considerably!

Rather than opening the case mouth, just size the bullet to fit the case. The case mouths are .550 in dia. and the bullet sized .550 will work in the Burnside barrel especially if you are using a hollow base bullet.

[spadegrip]

I tried another load today consisting of 1 1/2 F Swiss 40 grains and the Lyman 557 bullet sized to 552. The group measured ~2" at 50 yards. I think I am in the right track.

[Kenneth L. Walters]

I am looking for some help from you Burnside shooters. I have the Lyman 557475 and the Rapine moulds and I need load info like do you use wads? Powder charges, FF, or FFF. Case type ( s&s, Lodgewood) lube etcetera.
Thanks for the help.

What I'm most concerned about is case life. Any idea how many times a case can be reloaded?

As far as bullets are concerned I use a Rapine 556.360. Works perfectly.

[spadegrip]

What I'm most concerned about is case life. Any idea how many times a case can be reloaded?

As far as bullets are concerned I use a Rapine 556.360. Works perfectly.

Ken,
the Burnside cases are everlasting. I shot one years ago and the cases did not split after 20-30 loadings. There just isn't any pressure like you would find in a high power cartridge like a .223 or .308, were you can get maybe 3-4 loadings in a gas gun.

thats interesting that you are successful with the Rapine mould. I haven't been able to get that to work. I have been using the Lyman 557 minie. How much lube do you put on the bullet? Do you nose dip the bullet as there is little room for lube in the rings.
Thanks

[Kenneth L. Walters]

Ken,
the Burnside cases are everlasting. I shot one years ago and the cases did not split after 20-30 loadings. There just isn't any pressure like you would find in a high power cartridge like a .223 or .308, were you can get maybe 3-4 loadings in a gas gun.

thats interesting that you are successful with the Rapine mould. I haven't been able to get that to work. I have been using the Lyman 557 minie. How much lube do you put on the bullet? Do you nose dip the bullet as there is little room for lube in the rings.
Thanks

No trouble with the Rapine bullets at all. Worked perfectly.
Applied lubricate by hand. Just smeared it into the groves.
My burnside cases tended to split at the neck almost immediately. The gun is all original. No idea why this happened.

[spadegrip]

No trouble with the Rapine bullets at all. Worked perfectly.
Applied lubricate by hand. Just smeared it into the groves.
My burnside cases tended to split at the neck almost immediately. The gun is all original. No idea why this happened.

Ken,
where did you get your cases? Are they flat on the back by the flash hole or concave? Where do they split at the mouth of the case or further down by the gas seal ring. It may be a head space issue. Have you measured the chamber overall length and then the cartridge length? Does the moving breach move to the rear when you load a cartridge? The case may be stretching somehow.

[Kenneth L. Walters]

They are flat on the back near the flash hole. They split right at the mouth. The breach block does move to the rear when a cartridge is inserted.

[mdivancic]

The cases with the flat back are from S&S. Hope this info helps. Did you size the bullets before you put them in the case?

[B-Davis]

I finally got a chance to take my Burnside back out to the range today. I have been having no luck with the mini ball, so I decided to go back to the round ball. I am using a Lee double cavity .562 round ball mould.
I tried four variations of using a load of 38 grains of 2f. One load was just powder, the second was powder and cream of wheat. The third load was powder and a 45 caliber wad. The fourth was powder with wad and cream of wheat. The ball was double dipped in a lube of 50/50 crisco and beeswax.
After trying all four loads, one load proved successful at 50 yds. It is 38 grains of 2f with cream of wheat filling the rest of the casing. I was shooting off hand and the sight picture was simple enough. I used the standard "V" sight on the carbine with the original front sight. I buried the front sight into the V so only the top of the front sight was in the V. I aimed at 6 o'clock on the target.
The bull I was shooting at was 4 inches across. Unfortunately, I had loaded 5 rounds at this load, but one of the cartridges had broken open, so I only had four rounds. I have attached a picture so it can be seen what the load did. I am quite pleased with the results!

[Kenneth L. Walters]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9_V2gVw5jA

this is worth watching if, for no other reason, the lubricant he uses on his bullets

[spadegrip]

I finally got a chance to take my Burnside back out to the range today. I have been having no luck with the mini ball, so I decided to go back to the round ball. I am using a Lee double cavity .562 round ball mould.
I tried four variations of using a load of 38 grains of 2f. One load was just powder, the second was powder and cream of wheat. The third load was powder and a 45 caliber wad. The fourth was powder with wad and cream of wheat. The ball was double dipped in a lube of 50/50 crisco and beeswax.
After trying all four loads, one load proved successful at 50 yds. It is 38 grains of 2f with cream of wheat filling the rest of the casing. I was shooting off hand and the sight picture was simple enough. I used the standard "V" sight on the carbine with the original front sight. I buried the front sight into the V so only the top of the front sight was in the V. I aimed at 6 o'clock on the target.
The bull I was shooting at was 4 inches across. Unfortunately, I had loaded 5 rounds at this load, but one of the cartridges had broken open, so I only had four rounds. I have attached a picture so it can be seen what the load did. I am quite pleased with the results!

That is some great shooting! Does the round ball stay in the case as fixed ammunition or do you load the case with powder in the breach and place the loose ball on top and close the action?

[B-Davis]

I am loading at home. The ball stays in the case. Once I have powder, cream of wheat and ball loaded, I then just turn the cartridge upside down and dip the ball. At the range all I have to do is load and shoot!
Bryan

[spadegrip]

I am loading at home. The ball stays in the case. Once I have powder, cream of wheat and ball loaded, I then just turn the cartridge upside down and dip the ball. At the range all I have to do is load and shoot!
Bryan

Bryan,
can you post a pic of a loaded round?
thanks

[B-Davis]

Here are two pics of a loaded round that I just did this morning. The brass is loaded with 38 grains of 2F powder. I then fill the rest of the cartridge with cream of wheat upto the gas ring. This will leave me enough space to put on the round ball. The ball is a Lee .562 round ball. When I put on the ball there is no lube on the ball.
Once I have the ball on, I then dip the ball (while in the cartridge) into my lube. (50/50 beeswax and Crisco)

[spadegrip]

Here are two pics of a loaded round that I just did this morning. The brass is loaded with 38 grains of 2F powder. I then fill the rest of the cartridge with cream of wheat upto the gas ring. This will leave me enough space to put on the round ball. The ball is a Lee .562 round ball. When I put on the ball there is no lube on the ball.
Once I have the ball on, I then dip the ball (while in the cartridge) into my lube. (50/50 beeswax and Crisco)

Mia the ball pressed into the case with finger pressure? My case mouth is .553. How does a .562 ball fix in the case.

[B-Davis]

You are correct, I hand press the ball in with finger pressure. The ball will go in about 1/4 of the way. Once the ball is in, I usually turn the cartridge upside down and push the back of the cartridge with my thumb with the ball on the work table. Just enough pressure to ensure the ball will not pop out. Once you do it a couple of times, you get the hang of it, you will see the ball will only go in so far and stop.
Bryan

[spadegrip]

You are correct, I hand press the ball in with finger pressure. The ball will go in about 1/4 of the way. Once the ball is in, I usually turn the cartridge upside down and push the back of the cartridge with my thumb with the ball on the work table. Just enough pressure to ensure the ball will not pop out. Once you do it a couple of times, you get the hang of it, you will see the ball will only go in so far and stop.
Bryan

Thanks for the help! I'll try it this weekend.

[ian45662]

Has anyone tried this load In a skirmish? After about 6 or 7 rounds accuracy falls off and I have to do a through cleaning in order to get accuracy back.

[toot]

can I use 30 GRS, 3FG. BP, as a safe load? most say use 2FG, as a load? I put on top of the powder a piece of heavy lubed piece of BLUE MECHANICKS paper towels, as sold in WALLY WORLD, and have had no problem.

[noonanda]

can I use 30 GRS, 3FG. BP, as a safe load? most say use 2FG, as a load? I put on top of the powder a piece of heavy lubed piece of BLUE MECHANICKS paper towels, as sold in WALLY WORLD, and have had no problem.

I was using 28 Gr with no issues using a 350Gr .562 cast bullet. I started out at 30Gr but it seemed a little stout for the burnsides so I went down to 28.

[noonanda]

Has anyone tried this load In a skirmish? After about 6 or 7 rounds accuracy falls off and I have to do a through cleaning in order to get accuracy back.

Which load?

[toot]

I was using 28 Gr with no issues using a 350Gr .562 cast bullet. I started out at 30Gr but it seemed a little stout for the burnsides so I went down to 28.
thank you for that helpful information. I will try it. and not to say that will be a savings in BP!

[Eggman]

What is left unsaid in this thread are the great mental health benefits to be derived from a process such as this. I know from personal experience that a profound hatred of the Sharps carbine can be reduced or eliminated by a Burnside experience such as this. Once you've done the Burnside the travails of the Sharps seem a walk in the park.